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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    We actually had new photos taken last month - and I can honestly tell you the 3 sales guys ( DH included!) easily took double the amount of time preening themselves, changing ties/shirts , perfecting their hair for the shoot than the 5 women in my office did!
    My husband takes about 3 times as long getting ready for the office than I do. He will spend a good 15 minutes doing a fashion parade for me to decide which tie to match with his shirt.

    I work in an office and see clients on a daily basis. I don't always wear makeup. When I do it's very minimal. It's not because I'm rebelling against social conditioning. It's just because I really CBF!

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm interested in your answer to my question vp. We can't changed history and that social conditioning has occurred so when do you draw a line and just accept that women are actually just doing what they want and stop thinking they are sheep?
    We stop when women don't feel any pressure from any source to spend time and money on changing their appearance. (And men too for that matter)

    We stop when short men no longer get laughed at or made the but of every joke.

    We stop when someone's resume still gets read and given fair consideration for a job when the person's surname is that of a local aboriginal family.

    We stop when the capacity of any person to love and commit is not brought into question based on their gender identity or s.xuality.

    I could go on, but my point is, in times where we have input from so, so many sources swaying every decision from what brand to choose to who to admire and why, we really should not stop questioning our motivations for every decision we make.

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  4. #93
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    On the whole "men take just as long/longer to get ready" thing. That's now my general yardstick for appearance expectations at work. So I will spend time on coordinating an outfit, polishing my shoes, keeping my hair neat, nails trimmed and myself clean overall. I will also cover an especially ragey pimple as I find them distracting and know many men who do the same.

    There are times when I will do full hair, makeup, etc. Sometimes for a special event I do it because it's like fun dress ups as a kid, sometimes I feel like getting compliments that day because I'm feeling a bit low and know when I wear makeup I often get complimented on my eye colour or how great I'm looking. Sometimes I do it for DH. I do have to attend things as a WAG occassionally and I know from experience that you get sized up at these events and negative feedback can filter through to DH (eg. He might get a locker room ribbing that he could 'do better' - he doesn't take it on board but its something I'd rather avoid). I hate it, but I still do it (and I make sure DH knows I'm only doing it for him and he owes me), but I question it and I am conscious of why I am doing these things. I wish I had the strength in myself to not give in, but right now I just do what I can.

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I just realised that's what real estate agents do. And politicians. They have staged photos of themselves everywhere. I realise it's not 'selfies' - but it is still posing and posting everywhere. Is that terrible? Or different? If so, how?
    Good point. IMO it's not as bad because they arent focusing on their looks, aren't trying to get someone else to focus on their looks, and they aren't posting a different photo every few minutes.

  6. #95
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    Default The Sisterhood

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm interested in your answer to my question vp. We can't changed history and that social conditioning has occurred so when do you draw a line and just accept that women are actually just doing what they want and stop thinking they are sheep?
    Not sure. I don't know if I will ever think someone (myself included) isn't a sheep in some regard if the do something they were conditioned to, even if they acknowledged that the conditioning has played a role.

    For me, I an a little extra judgemental if the person doesn't acknowledge the social conditioning and claims a decision is all theirs - the person just hasn't 'got it.'

    For me, something crosses the line when it is aimed at continuing to perpetuate that social conditioning (ie judd posting selfies designed to sell a beauty product to other women). If that person fails to recognise the social conditioning, potential impact of their actions of others or worse still acts surprised when there is fallout from that social conditioning (as Judd has done in blogs, complaining about how people judge her appearance) then that does lead me to think they may be a stubby short of a six pack.
    Last edited by VicPark; 05-10-2016 at 06:07.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Good point. IMO it's not as bad because they arent focusing on their looks, aren't trying to get someone else to focus on their looks, and they aren't posting a different photo every few minutes.
    I was thinking about this because of all the real estate junk mail I get and I also have a nice big Peter Dutton sign down the road. They (to me) are selling themselves as a brand. The difference is the type of delivery and what they sell and the people they connect to.

    VP - I wish I could empower you to be able to wear/present yourself the way you really want to. I know that there are pressures to look a certain way - I have never denied that. And that is what I want to change. People need to have the choice without the judgement.

    FTR, whether it is social conditioning or not I did not shave for ages when DD was born. It was autumn/winter. I wear tights. And really I CBF. I went out one day tightless and the breeze hit me. And my legs. And OMG it was so so so annoying and tickled and I wanted to scratch my legs off.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Why is it you can't stand Bec Judd? I'm really interested in that as I have no really opinion or knowledge of her apart from that she's married to Chris and what I glean from her Instagram (which I didn't look at before this week).

    I'm genuinely interested why she's someone you'd openly say you dislike. Not trying to debate it just curious. I wouldn't even say that about a kardashian to be honest.
    I've been thinking about this, and it's more the brand more than the person like in Holly's article (I did read it there was just so much to catch up on, I forgot that one).

    I really struggle with a number of characteristics that I see in her. Obviously this is my perception, I acknowledge this list is purely what I see and how I see she portrays herself. I'm not saying this is all true, but I'm explaining why her 'brand' annoys me.

    She comes across extremely self obsessed

    She comes across very 'posey' in her pics of herself. Unnatural, contrived.

    Clearly she has brains, yet we never seem to see them or hear anything intelligent from her - and it's not bc she's a SAHM.

    She has chosen to make a business not just from her appearance, but from reinforcing a body type that is far from average and for many, unobtainable. And yes, I get it could be genetic. But at the same time, these are the images that flood women's senses and the 'never good enough' issue we have imho often comes from these types of unobtainable body types. I'm not saying she should skulk in the shadows lol but I would love to see her put out there that *if* she is so skinny genetically, that most women aren't like that. As a role model I think she owes the public that honesty.

    I guess I just see her as a one dimensional egocentric WAG and I would love to see a more balanced view of her.

    I have enjoyed this thread though. It has got me thinking that I maybe need to dislike the 'brand' not the person - and I do, maybe I just haven't verbalised that well.
    Last edited by delirium; 05-10-2016 at 10:01.

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  10. #98
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    On the whole Bec Judd conversation...

    I think it's awesome that she owns her body and is proud of it. Whether you are a size 6 or a size 26 every woman should have the right to be proud and own who they are. I guess on the opposite side of social conditioning, when women do look a certain way (Bec Judds figure type) they are labelled as show offs and putting Pressure on other women etc. Not saying anyone on here has said that but that's a general observation from others. I love her fit and healthy lifestyle, it inspires me. As does a bigger sized woman that shines confidence and curves (so envious of women with curves). So I believe that every woman regardless of size, clothes, hair colour, line of work etc has the right to be proud of who they are and their lifestyle. That to me is being a feminist and supporting the sisterhood 😊

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  12. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I've been thinking about this, and it's more the brand more than the person like in Holly's article (I did read it there was just so much to catch up on, I forgot that one).

    I really struggle with a number of characteristics that I see in her. Obviously this is my perception, I acknowledge this list is purely what I see and how I see she portrays herself. I'm not saying this is all true, but I'm explaining why her 'brand' annoys me.

    She comes across extremely self obsessed

    She comes across very 'posey' in her pics of herself. Unnatural, contrived.

    Clearly she has brains, yet we never seem to see them or hear anything intelligent from her - and it's not bc she's a SAHM.

    She has chosen to make a business not just from her appearance, but from reinforcing a body type that is far from average and for many, unobtainable. And yes, I get it could be genetic. But at the same time, these are the images that flood women's senses and the 'never good enough' issue we have imho often comes from these types of unobtainable body types. I'm not saying she should skulk in the shadows lol but I would love to see her put out there that *if* she is so skinny genetically, that most women aren't like that. As a role model I think she owes the public that honesty.

    I guess I just see her as a one dimensional egocentric WAG and I would love to see a more balanced view of her.

    I have enjoyed this thread though. It has got me thinking that I maybe need to dislike the 'brand' not the person - and I do, maybe I just haven't verbalised that well.
    What I guess I'm struggling with is how you even come across her. Maybe I live in a hole but I never see her "brand" anywhere. Yes I see kardashians everywhere I turn but as for Bec nope never. Unless you followed her Instagram where would you see her (I'm not in Melbourne so don't see her on the news or watch postcards.

    That's what I was asking I suppose. She's not on my radar at all.

  13. #100
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    I'm into the AFL, has been since a child so obviously keep up with afl related news. She also also been in the news quite a bit the last few months because of the twins.


 

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