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  1. #161
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    Default For those not sure about having a third....

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    She is in the beauty industry. I am not a spray tan fan but plenty of people are. And ask her advice. Her job is to try things out to promote it.

    Your 'they do it for men' comment is BS. I do makeup for me. Almost all women do all this for THEM. It makes me feel good. Just like a book may make someone feel good. So what does that make me? Someone desperate for attention who hates myself?
    All women say they do it for themselves and I'm sure on some level they all do. Scratch beneath the surface though and it's a much more complicated picture - generations of social conditioning with a splash of manipulation and control thrown in by the 'stronger sex' for good measure.

    Make up and spray tans serve no logical physical purpose. You are kidding yourself if you think beauty regimes are simply by women for women.

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    All women say they do it for themselves and I'm sure on some level they all do. Scratch beneath the surface though and it's a much more complicated picture - generations of social conditioning with a splash of manipulation and control thrown in by the 'stronger sex' for good measure.

    Make up and spray tans serve no logical physical purpose. You are kidding yourself if you think beauty regimes are simply by women for women.
    Fine. You must be right. Men have all the power. We do not make decisions for ourselves. Thanks for taking away our power..

    Oh and while I'm at it - thanks for laughing and supporting someone who makes fun of women.

  4. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    All women say they do it for themselves and I'm sure on some level they all do. Scratch beneath the surface though and it's a much more complicated picture - generations of social conditioning with a splash of manipulation and control thrown in by the 'stronger sex' for good measure.

    Make up and spray tans serve no logical physical purpose. You are kidding yourself if you think beauty regimes are simply by women for women.
    Why don't most men put on make-up each morning? Because it's not something that anyone does purely "for themselves". I totally agree with VicPark that there's a whole history of social conditioning that has led women in particular to put so much emphasis on their physical appearance, thanks both to competition with other women and to men frequently using a woman's appearance as a lever to control her self-esteem (and thereby her behaviour). Society clearly places far less emphasis on men's appearance as a measure of their worth or success.

    Does that mean I think it's completely bad to care about your appearance? No, not at all, as long as it's undertaken in moderation (not as the primary means of deriving your feelings of self-worth), and you don't use it as a yardstick when judging other people's worth.

    I think it's important to openly acknowledge why appearance assumes such importance for many women, in order to try to move towards a more equitable society in which women are judged more by what they do, say and think, rather than by how they look.

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  6. #164
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    Why don't women just cover their faces every day in case men find us attractive.

    Oh wait some do. And that's men oppressing them.

    Can't win.

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  8. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
    Why don't most men put on make-up each morning? Because it's not something that anyone does purely "for themselves". I totally agree with VicPark that there's a whole history of social conditioning that has led women in particular to put so much emphasis on their physical appearance, thanks both to competition with other women and to men frequently using a woman's appearance as a lever to control her self-esteem (and thereby her behaviour). Society clearly places far less emphasis on men's appearance as a measure of their worth or success.

    Does that mean I think it's completely bad to care about your appearance? No, not at all, as long as it's undertaken in moderation (not as the primary means of deriving your feelings of self-worth), and you don't use it as a yardstick when judging other people's worth.

    I think it's important to openly acknowledge why appearance assumes such importance for many women, in order to try to move towards a more equitable society in which women are judged more by what they do, say and think, rather than by how they look.
    In moderation. What is moderation? Who decides on monderation?

    I do not think we give women enough credit anymore. When we try and make a decision the obvious answer is always 'for men'. Yes there was a time where women did not feel they had a choice. And that is the important word. CHOICE. We did not have a choice. We fought for a choice. And now we have a choice and use it suddenly it is not our choice. Because obviously it is for a man.

    And you may be surprised at the number of men that wear makeup. Regularly. And tan. And rid themselves of hair. For them. Because its their choice for them. But somehow when it's a woman it is not for them.

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  10. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    In moderation. What is moderation? Who decides on monderation?

    I do not think we give women enough credit anymore. When we try and make a decision the obvious answer is always 'for men'. Yes there was a time where women did not feel they had a choice. And that is the important word. CHOICE. We did not have a choice. We fought for a choice. And now we have a choice and use it suddenly it is not our choice. Because obviously it is for a man.

    And you may be surprised at the number of men that wear makeup. Regularly. And tan. And rid themselves of hair. For them. Because its their choice for them. But somehow when it's a woman it is not for them.
    It's not moderation when someone (be they male or female) premises their entire self-worth in how they look and feels like they're not good enough unless they can be "physically perfect" (based on what society deems to be ideal appearance).
    Last edited by Gentoo; 02-10-2016 at 16:55.

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  12. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
    It's not moderation when someone (be they male or female) premises their entire self-worth in how they look and feels like they're not good enough unless they can be "physically perfect" (based on what society deems to be ideal appearance).
    I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But how can you judge based on a persons Instagram account? I'm not even sure if you are but many on here have

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  14. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But how can you judge based on a persons Instagram account? I'm not even sure if you are but many on here have
    It's not just the Instagram. Lots of other things point to someone who lives the women-need-to-focus-on-physical appearance mantra. She's a model. She posts selfies. She posts bikini self shots trying to flog a spray tanning business. She runs her own beauty business.

  15. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    It's not just the Instagram. Lots of other things point to someone who lives the women-need-to-focus-on-physical appearance mantra. She's a model. She posts selfies. She posts bikini self shots trying to flog a spray tanning business. She runs her own beauty business.
    Following her Instagram she strikes me as having great self esteem. Just because her values don't matter to you doesn't mean she's struggling with her life.

  16. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Following her Instagram she strikes me as having great self esteem. Just because her values don't matter to you doesn't mean she's struggling with her life.
    I don't think she's struggling at all. She's just not someone I would hold up as a role model for young kids.


 

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