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  1. #41
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    I may never have smoked but have got a history of addiction to hard drugs & alcohol. Yes I managed to quit the drugs & yes making a simple choice was a part of that. 15 years on though it is sometimes still the most difficult thing to do, I would love nothing more than to get high again. I am lucky though in that I have managed not to, or to misuse prescription medication to a lesser degree instead. But there are so many complicating factors & involvement of various parts of the brain and body that scientifically, no it not as simple as making that choice. Yes, for some people that is enough. If you are in that group consider yourself lucky. For others it simply isn't.

    Add in to this, as @twinklify noted, dual diagnosis MI & addiction is common, extremely common. Being in a psych ward atm, I am the only non-smoking patient here. Has been that way since I was here. Could count on 1 hand the number of non-smoking patients that I was here with in over 3 months earlier in the year. Most people who have tried to quit, some desperately but haven't been able to. It hasn't been through lack of making the choice to. Same principle for drugs, alcohol & smoking. For many, addiction to substances is as much as illness as my MI is (though many think that is a figment of my imagination too so can see why people can't get that).

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooch View Post
    I agree

    Righteousness doesn't achieve anything except for the righteous to feel superior. About as effective in changing smoking rates as a $50 I reckon.
    Is there a point when action should/needs to move from 'supportive encouragement' to 'righteous judgement'/government intervention?

    If so what is that point?

    My mother smoked throughout pregnancy and in the house when I was growing up. In the car too up until a certain point. I'm just dreading the day where her actions come back to bite me in a health aspect. Supportive encouragement didn't help my mum. Not saying a bit of judgey would have necessarily have helped either however I would have preferred that approach to be at least tried so I could know everything that could have been done was done.

    My health was worth my mum feeling whatever she had to feel to stop, whether that be supported or embarrased.

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  5. #43
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    I do not have a problem with the program. If it helps one person quit then yay. A $50 per month incentive is not much but if it gets women thinking about their smoking, considering quitting and actually attempting to quit and maybe succeeding then I think it's absolutely awesome. It's one part of the package of interventions public health uses to support quit attempts. Just getting people thinking about their smoking and quitting and trying is a good thing.
    And to those saying it's just about ' 'educating' people I will say this. I started smoking when I was 14 (my parents smoked which is the main predictor of young people starting). I quit at age 20 and started up again at 24 when I went through a traumatic divorce. For me smoking was a way to cope with major life stress. I ended up as a highly educated public health professional. I was writing tobacco legislation for the government while I was smoking. I was certainly 'educated' about smoking and all the deleterious effects. My point is that educating people about smoking isn't enough. I was educated and I still smoked. There are so many reasons why people smoke and for many it goes beyond a simple 'choice'. Yes people 'choose' to smoke but let's be real and consider what else is going on that encourages them to smoke or makes it harder to quit. Not everyone has that awesome reserve of willpower. Maybe they've never seen someone successfully quit. Maybe everyone in their peer groups smoke. Maybe they have so much other stuff going on that smoking is the bottom of their worry list.
    If no other factors in their life change that keep them smoking then yes let's acknowledge that it's bl00dy hard. How awesome for those that have managed to quit (and I am one of them I quit completely 6 years ago) but that doesn't mean it is that easy for everyone. And when you are really struggling in life, having a lack of control over basic things, not much to look forward to, where smoking is the one pleasurable thing you have to look forward to then yeah I totally get that giving up would be very hard. That doesn't mean these women don't care about their babies and frankly it's so offensive to suggest that. People could use the same analogy for a bunch of things. Pregnant women who smoke are already shamed and stigmatized so badly so anything that might positively encourage quit attempts is a winner in my book.

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  7. #44
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    I don’t for a moment believe that most pregnant smokers continue smoking because they don’t care about the health of their child. I would guess that most of them want to do the right thing by their unborn child, but continue smoking for a range of reasons – because they have a strong physical addiction, because it fills a mental/emotional need (eg. managing their stress), because they don’t have effective strategies for stopping, or because they don't have support and encouragement from families or friends.

    I don’t smoke, never have. But I feel like all of us (well, at least the majority of us who aren’t as wholly saintly as some posters on here) probably have some habitual behaviours or addictions that should help us to have some empathy for why it’s usually not as simple as just telling someone they must quit. During my own pregnancies, my OB was very clear that it was important not to overeat and put on excess weight, because it was unhealthy for the baby (risk of gestational diabetes), it put them at high likelihood of having weight problems themselves later in life, and it would be harder for me to return to a healthy weight after the birth. I knew of this, I understood it, I wanted to do the right thing… and yet I still ate too much and put on more weight than I needed to. Food, and chocolate in particular, fills an emotional role for me – if I’m stressed or unhappy or just generally in need of a pick-me-up, I turn to eating. And rather than seek assistance from a dietician or a psychologist or someone else who might be able to help me change my relationship with food and overcome my problem, I tried to hide it or ignore it.

    With all the judgement that pregnant smokers receive (as evidenced here), is it any wonder that so many don’t want to admit their addiction to health professionals, and receive the help they need to be able to overcome the factors that led them to start, and continue, to smoke?

    Punishing or lecturing people rarely works to motivate them – it merely alienates them and drives their behaviour underground or makes them more resistant to change. If our goal is truly to encourage mothers to act in the best interests of themselves and their unborn children (rather than to make non-smokers feel morally superior and self-congratulatory), then the best course of action is to provide them with support, assistance, and an environment in which they are understood and empathised with rather than condemned. I don’t believe that a $50 voucher every month would really motivate anyone to quit smoking. But I do believe that the accompanying program in which the smokers are provided with strategies and support would. The $50 is simply a way of recognising their achievement in moving towards their goal of quitting.

    I would frankly be happy to see a program where the financial incentives were quite significant, as long as it was accompanied by the practical support people require to quit. It would be win-win all around – for the mothers, for their children, and for the health system.

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  9. #45
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    I was a smoker, but I was never really addicted as such. It was a habit thing. I had one cigarette left in my packet when I took my pregnancy test. When it turned up positive, I decided I would smoke that one last cigarette (as a closure things I guess) and that would be that. And it was. 7 years later, and I don't think about them at all. It wasn't even "hard" for me to quit and I hang out with smokers all the time. Caffeine on the other hand, I get addicted to so easily. And despite knowing how hard withdrawal is for me to go through, I still get tempted. Made even harder by my shift working husband filling out drinks fridge with energy drinks. So I do get addiction, and it's really hard.

    I don't think a $50 incentive alone is going to cut it. I think support will do wonders and if that $50 helps with the support aspect, then I have no issue. My mother was a heavy smoker long before I came along and smoked all through my pregnancy (my father did quit when she fell pregnant though). She has been given ultimatums by different people which never worked. She was given an unlimited fuel card by her boss as incentive, so she lied about it and started smelling horrifically of Pulse body spray and those Listerine tabs you put on your tongue. She has been offered stop-smoking aids, hypnotherapy sessions, money etc. I blew up at her once (after countless civil chats) because she would insist on picking my baby up, while smoking. Her father died from cancer, smoking related. Nothing worked and I'm sure she will be smoking long after she is dead and buried. Unfortunately, that's just how it is for some people and no amount of support or incentives will work. My mother just simply doesn't believe that smoking is harmful. She insists its a conspiracy against her (she is hideously narcissistic) and that they are fine, so she just has no desire to quit.

  10. #46
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    While I do support positive reinforcement to give up rather than punitive means, $50 a month to a smoker is probably not going to be enough if being pregnant itself wasn't.

    I'm a very proud ex smoker. I gave up when I found out I was pg this last time, and unlike the other kids, I haven't gone back. I refuse to. But let me say, nicotine addiction is a very powerful thing. I gave up pretty easy, but 2 years on, I still crave them. While smoking while pg isn't good, shaming won't work.

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    I believe you can be empathic toward a pregnant woman's smoking addiction, but I don't believe that includes making that woman feel any less ashamed or guilty about smoking during pregnancy.

    It's not theory here...years of clinical experience and research has shown smoking to be disastrously detrimental to a developing foetus.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    You do. Your insurance is cheaper for one thing.
    True, you do get rewarded for not being a massive drain on the nation's health budget. Fun!

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

  14. #49
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    I think this article has been written in such a way as to spark some controversy and discussion. The $50 is an incentive to agree to participate in the research rather than to quit smoking. Many women will (try to) quit smoking when pregnant but they may not wish to do this as part of a research program. The $50 may be enough to encourage them to participate in the research given they are trying to quit anyway for the health of the baby. I'm not sure that anywhere in the article does it say they only get the money if they quit. I think the story has been twisted on purpose and is really just another example of poor and potentially unethical journalism.

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    Default WDYT - Pregnant women who stop smoking offered gift vouchers

    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisecoast View Post
    sorry but you do just make a choice to quit the fags. it's not that hard. I quit cold turkey and haven't gone back. I'm sick of the excuses people make for smokers. grow the f.ck up and put your baby's health first. it's actually that easy.
    Wow.

    I'm glad it was so easy for you.

    For me it wasn't.

    And because everyone assumes it should be that easy, when it turns out it's not, you feel you have no one to help or support you. They don't understand- I must be lacking a maternal instinct. Hence the lies.

    Way to make someone feel like a piece of ****.
    Last edited by Little Miss Sunshine; 12-09-2016 at 07:47.

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