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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I agree with what cheeeesecake is saying. I would never look at naplan results. Ever. My kids attend "elite" private schools (single ****** male and female so 2 schools) and I couldn't tell you their naplan results. I couldn't care less.

    No 2 schools are ever 100% equal @VicPark so the hypothetical is impossible to answer.
    If you couldn't afford for your kids to go to an Elite school with a good reputation, would Naplan be one of the things you looked at to determine what was best for your children?

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    I am wary of getting involved, but I also think the hypothetical is impossible to answer because no two schools are the same.
    I have seen the way our school has changed with our new principal. Our NAPLAN performance has improved so much, but our kids are prepped for it an incredible amount. Our old principal didn't, because he was so deeply opposed to having one set of exams dictate a child's intelligence level. Here's a perfect example - one of my children has a friend who has a lot of trouble with reading. It's genetic, and this child gets tutored outside of school just to keep up with the work in class. This child is not dumb at all, just has a learning difficulty when it comes to reading that requires extra support. In NAPLAn this child manages to score incredibly high in reading. Higher than my child. My child sat exams for a selective highschool and got in. The other child would not have been selected, or survive in a selective highschool ( this kid is brilliant in their own ways...I am not knocking this child at all. This child has other skills more advanced than mine, but academically speaking, my child performs better in class). According to NAPLAN this child performs much better in reading than maths, but that's not the case at all.
    One set of exams is not an accurate measurement of the individual child, therefore you can't accurately measure the school's performance by looking at NAPLAN.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    @VicPark
    Also, you clearly dont understand how it works in schools with helping children with extra needs. Each child is assessed on an individual basis and given extra help based on their own needs. There isnt a set amount of 'extra help' - that is shared out amongst however many kids need it. More kids with extra needs = more special needs support. If anything, the individual child would receive greater support if they are in a school with a larger group of kids who needs help, because the government would pool the resources towards those kids.
    .
    Great points in the other parts of your post - read and acknowledged. With regards to this part I just wanted to say that for a variety of reasons teachers aid doesn't necessarily mean other students aren't disadvantaged in some way. Aides aren't always approved quickly and aren't always available 24/7. If a bunch of kids in a class require extra assistance then without knowing the details of their specific situation you can't say unequivocally that there's no impact on the classroom teacher and other kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    If you couldn't afford for your kids to go to an Elite school with a good reputation, would Naplan be one of the things you looked at to determine what was best for your children?
    That's a great question - I was looking at the myschool site last night and yes I suppose it would cross your mind - I was looking up our local public schools ( I know tons of families whose kids go to them and what reputations they have) the ones with bad reputations have lower NAPLAN scores and the ones with better reputations did have higher - but- with my experience with my nieces public school ( good NAPLAN but crap school) it proves that if the scores are high that might indicate to the general public the teachers/students are academically doing well but if your child is not getting the support from the teachers and it was a very cliquey school who did nothing about bullying and your child was just hating school and getting depressed , the academic side of it is useless if they are suffering and you really need a balance as school is so much more than just academic

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  6. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Great points in the other parts of your post - read and acknowledged. With regards to this part I just wanted to say that for a variety of reasons teachers aid doesn't necessarily mean other students aren't disadvantaged in some way. Aides aren't always approved quickly and aren't always available 24/7. If a bunch of kids in a class require extra assistance then without knowing the details of their specific situation you can't say unequivocally that there's no impact on the classroom teacher and other kids.
    There is so much more to special needs support than a teachers aide. Every school has a special needs department with a qualified special needs teacher, who will assess student needs on an individual basis. Including things like ESL,ASD,etc. Some does require applying for funding later on, but with needs such as ESL, when the child is enrolled in school, it is prior knowledge that the child will be ESL and need extra support. Same with a lot of special needs. The school will have a plan for these kids starting out the year. It's only the kids with undiagnosed needs that wont know that going into school - but most kids attend preschool, so it's really rare that a school gets a kid with 'extra needs' & has no prior warning at all that the kid needs extra support. Im a prep teacher, so have been heavily involved in getting my new kids the support they need. Trust me when I say that it's not a problem when there are more kids who need more support. If anything, each child would get MORE support in a situation like this, because they would likely have access t both individual, small group, and in-class support. Sorry, but it's fairly clear that you dont know how the system of special needs support in schools works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    There is so much more to special needs support than a teachers aide. Every school has a special needs department with a qualified special needs teacher, who will assess student needs on an individual basis. Including things like ESL,ASD,etc. Some does require applying for funding later on, but with needs such as ESL, when the child is enrolled in school, it is prior knowledge that the child will be ESL and need extra support. Same with a lot of special needs. The school will have a plan for these kids starting out the year. It's only the kids with undiagnosed needs that wont know that going into school - but most kids attend preschool, so it's really rare that a school gets a kid with 'extra needs' & has no prior warning at all that the kid needs extra support. Im a prep teacher, so have been heavily involved in getting my new kids the support they need. Trust me when I say that it's not a problem when there are more kids who need more support. If anything, each child would get MORE support in a situation like this, because they would likely have access t both individual, small group, and in-class support. Sorry, but it's fairly clear that you dont know how the system of special needs support in schools works.
    So there are no schools that do worse at managing special needs than others? All schools perform equally as fantastically?

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    Default Kinder program in childcare if funding isn't approved?

    Sometimes Naplan isn't indicative of the quality of a school or the opportunities your kids will have there. Then again sometimes it can be - if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

    I went to a public highschool that was absolute rubbish. A lot of socially disadvantaged kids, fights, parents that cheered at fights, graffiti, more fights, bullying. Yes there were some good teachers however with all the crap going on it was very hard for them to give the students who wanted to learn their attention. And the really high calibre teachers wouldn't teach at the school as they didn't want to be at a school where they didn't feel safe. Students who wanted to learn (there were a few) got ok results however if they were in a different school where the teachers weren't as distracted then the world could have been their oyster.

    Yes I checked myschools and my ****bag highschool is below average in terms of Naplan.

    Not always, but sometimes, Naplan can be a red flag that parents might want to look into further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    So there are no schools that do worse at managing special needs than others? All schools perform equally as fantastically?
    No, not at all. Some special needs support systems are better than others - usualy because of better teachers. It's just that I wouldnt jusge this by naplan. I would go into the school & ask about what special needs support they have. A school with more kids who need support would more likely have a better system in place.

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    @cheeeeesecake my experience with special needs is very different. Since the district support personnel was decimated in my local region, we have almost no support and very little money for it. We wait up to 15 months for public assessments of our students, and often recommend to parents that they pay for private ones.

    Students to need to be in the bottom 1st or 2nd percentile to qualify for the minimal support, which is one hour a week. We top it up a little bit don't have the money to top it up a lot.

    I have two students who qualify for A level support - I have a teacher's aide for 30 mins a day for three days for each of these students. This is laughable considering how far behind they are but it is better than nothing I suppose.

    But in my class I also have a severely dyslexic student (no funding for support), an ESL student, a gifted student with a horrible home life and resultant anxiety who very rarely has food in her belly, a student with a parent who has attempted suicide multiple times, so she is always on edge waiting to get that call and suffers from panic attacks, two students with mild processing disorders, a student with anger management issues who has huge blowouts and tantrums, a student with anxiety who is seeing a psychologist and receiving CBT, a student with speech issues that affect his literacy and two students who repeated Year 1 and still struggle academically. I don't receive any extra 'support' for my class, and I am at the point of delivering individual curriculums to each student. I spend a significant amount of time talking through personal problems with my students because they need help with processing the crap that goes on in their lives before they are willing to learn.

    I guess my point is that I can see how a consideration of extra support is relevant to a school choice, but also that ALL students need extra support for something. It may be academic, it may be social, it may be emotional.

    I am in a Category 5 school on the disadvantage index (1 being the most 'disadvantaged') and this is what I deal with on a daily basis. I can't imagine how Category 1 schools even begin to think/care about NAPLAN. But some of these more disadvantaged schools actually attract the best teachers and that's important to remember.

    I hate that 7 year olds are compared to other 7 year olds on the basis of one test on one day, and that already in society we are labelling them as average, above or below.

    But, as a parent, I do understand how it has happened that NAPLAN results seem like a relevant factor because often times it is the only information that's out there. I would love that website to report student growth instead of results (which is also measured and reported on in these tests) because IMO that's a better indicator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    No, not at all. Some special needs support systems are better than others - usualy because of better teachers. It's just that I wouldnt jusge this by naplan. I would go into the school & ask about what special needs support they have. A school with more kids who need support would more likely have a better system in place.
    Absolutely agree.


 

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