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  1. #211
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    Default Kinder program in childcare if funding isn't approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    No. You conveniently skipped over the part where I said "all else being equal." By all else I meant school community, extra curricular activities, diversity, sense of community, experience and calibre of teachers etc. Of course it is difficult to measure those aspects, however I would try. I would never choose a school based on Naplan alone. I don't know anyone who would I think you are being sensitive and alarmist with that claim.

    That being said if by some miracle I was able to ascertain that 2 different schools were exactly the same in terms of all the non-Naplan aspects (difficult, perhaps impossible), I make no apology for saying that I would choose the school in which the children obtained better Naplan results.
    For me, better educational outcomes are more than NAPLAN. In fact it has nothing to do with NAPLAN. It's about the whole curriculum and how it's delivered. Class sizes, playground size/space, school size, how they teach literacy (this is a massive one for me), bullying policy, and many more are higher up the food chain than a red or green mark on myschool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    For me, better educational outcomes are more than NAPLAN. In fact it has nothing to do with NAPLAN. It's about the whole curriculum and how it's delivered. Class sizes, playground size/space, school size, how they teach literacy (this is a massive one for me), bullying policy, and many more are higher up the food chain than a red mark on myschool.
    They are all super important factors.
    If there were 2 schools performing equally as well in all those factors, but one had higher Naplan results than the other, then would you chose the higher or lower Naplan performing school?

  3. #213
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    My nieces old public school has all green NAPLAN scores ( above average) and it was a crap school, bullying, lazy teachers , hardly any extra curricular activities, no teachers aides etc so she took them out - so I totally agree NAPLAN really should not be a deciding factor and if those articles above are all true it's all bull**** anyway!
    I think the best way to decide on a school is to see what they offer ( if that suits your child) chat to the principle , meet the teachers and talk to parents and the kids, they are the best guide and will usually tell you the truth!

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    Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (17-09-2016)

  5. #214
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    @BigRedV - what's a ICSEA score? Your school you teach at is quite low? How do they work it out and what does that mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    @BigRedV - what's a ICSEA score? Your school you teach at is quite low? How do they work it out and what does that mean?
    So basically it's a score in educational advantage. 1000 is the "norm" or average. Anything below is below average and they factor into the score things like parent occupation and education level, number of indigenous students etc. They use the score to compare "like" schools that give you the red and green and white lines, which in itself is a joke as the school that I work at has been compared to rural coastal schools because it got the same score but the complexities would be really different yet we weren't compared to neighbouring schools with similar numbers, clientele and complexities.

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    Elijahs Mum  (16-09-2016)

  8. #216
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    Default Kinder program in childcare if funding isn't approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    They are all super important factors.
    If there were 2 schools performing equally as well in all those factors, but one had higher Naplan results than the other, then would you chose the higher or lower Naplan performing school?
    Nope. I wouldn't. If the principal of the school with all green lines was a conceited, arrogant **** and the other was an amazing leader of a school in the red then I would go with the one that had a top leader.

    In fact, I put my daughter's name down at a neighbouring school for out of area because it was easier for me for my work starting time as before school care opened half an hour earlier than my current one but then I met the principal. I was being introduced to her and she wouldn't even look at me and shake my hand. And the office ladies! You can tell a lot about a school from its office staff

    Here's the school I put my daughter's name down on but reneged on all because of the 2 different styles and personalities of the leaders.

    ETA My daughter wouldn't have got in for out of area anyway. But my friend owns a house in the zone for the school and she did up a dodgy rental agreement for me to say I rented get house but I didn't want to go to that school after that.

    ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1474032590.223958.jpg

    And you know what, I have a friend who started working at that school last year that I didn't send my daughter to and she tells me horror stories about student behaviour and teachers being lazy etc. yet this school has the most impeccable reputation and is apparently the best public school in the area with massive waiting lists for out of area enrolments.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 16-09-2016 at 23:38.

  9. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Nope. I wouldn't. If the principal of the school with all green lines was a conceited, arrogant **** and the other was an amazing leader of a school in the red then I would go with the one that had a top leader.

    In fact, I put my daughter's name down at a neighbouring school for out of area because it was easier for me for my work starting time as before school care opened half an hour earlier than my current one but then I met the principal. I was being introduced to her and she wouldn't even look at me and shake my hand. And the office ladies! You can tell a lot about a school from its office staff

    Here's the school I put my daughter's name down on but reneged on all because of the 2 different styles and personalities of the leaders.

    ETA My daughter wouldn't have got in for out of area anyway. But my friend owns a house in the zone for the school and she did up a dodgy rental agreement for me to say I rented get house but I didn't want to go to that school after that.

    Attachment 84381

    And you know what, I have a friend who started working at that school last year that I didn't send my daughter to and she tells me horror stories about student behaviour and teachers being lazy etc. yet this school has the most impeccable reputation and is apparently the best public school in the area with massive waiting lists for out of area enrolments.
    I think you're still missing my point.
    "If everything is equal" include the friendliness and calibre of the principal and front office staff. If the schools were exactly the same, perfect principals and staff, equal distance from home/work, equal social development/pastoral care success rate, then are you telling me you would still choose the school which performed lower in the Naplan?

    It's like you are biased against higher Naplan performing schools. Your school is performing lower in terms of Naplan but that is for totally valid reason (which you won't explain). And when it comes to non-Naplan aspects those schools couldn't possible be as good as your school because they spend too much time focusing on Naplan (a lot of assumptions there you can't possibly know the ins and outs of all the other schools).

    You are doing to higher Naplan schools what you are accusing parents of doing to your school -looking at their Naplan results and making snap judgements.

    I think your school sounds great however if it was as 100% perfect as you make out then it wouldn't have below average Naplan results.

  10. #218
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    @VicPark I dont think BigRedV is saying she would intentionally choose a school with lower naplan results. She is saying she doesnt care about naplan results. She wouldnt even bother to look at them, becaue there are too many other factors that are more important when choosing a school. I am a teacher & I chose my child's school without looking at their naplan results.

    Also, you clearly dont understand how it works in schools with helping children with extra needs. Each child is assessed on an individual basis and given extra help based on their own needs. There isnt a set amount of 'extra help' - that is shared out amongst however many kids need it. More kids with extra needs = more special needs support. If anything, the individual child would receive greater support if they are in a school with a larger group of kids who needs help, because the government would pool the resources towards those kids.

    My 2nd dd also has 'extra needs', & I dont want to send her to a school 100% full of normally functioning, high class, white students, becaue she would stick out like a sore thumb with her 'needs'. Diversity is great for her, because SHE is one of the diverse ones, in her own way. She would probably be drawn to making friends with the 'diverse' kids,because she will relate to them.

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  12. #219
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    I agree with what cheeeesecake is saying. I would never look at naplan results. Ever. My kids attend "elite" private schools (single ****** male and female so 2 schools) and I couldn't tell you their naplan results. I couldn't care less.

    No 2 schools are ever 100% equal @VicPark so the hypothetical is impossible to answer.

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    This is going to be a lengthy, more than one para post VP but I wanted to explain why a school may be, on paper, not scoring well but if fact be a really good school for a child is additional needs like your son (and I'm thinking there is nothing diagnosible with your DS1, he's just higher needs?) Obviously this is just *my* kids school and isn't a blue print for why others may score low but be a good school.

    * High indigenous population - Indigeous people in all tribes traditionally had no written language, they learned aurally. I argue it may well be genetic. Our western way of learning is very written based, the NAPLAN's themselves are written. Many Aboriginal families place less importance on school. It's not they don't care, they just have different priorities.
    * Very mixed demographics - our catchment includes some quite middle class areas, but also very poor ones. I'm going to be clear poor does not equal feral/dumb. But there are issues within these families not conducive to performing well.
    * Our school refuses to 'coach' for NAPLAN's.
    * We are rural. Rural people tend to be less into the parent getting additional coaching out of school. Less into wanting to spend 30k a year for a popular 'posh' school. Partly bc our incomes are lower, partly bc we just aren't as into that. Now that of course is a generalisation, but mainly true.

    Bc we have the low SES catchments, we get more funding under Gonski. We have teachers aids to manage the higher needs kids so they aren't impacting the others. We have a school band, a G&T program. An amazing reading recovery and remedial programs with certain teachers specialised in those areas.

    My kids are really excelling at this school. Just bc on paper we have certain reasons that pull down our results, that doesn't mean kids can't do well. It just means we maybe have more high needs kids than most, and refuse to cover that up by NAPLAN coaching. I should add our results have improved quite a bit, mainly with targeted teaching. But what I'm maybe not articulating succinctly, is a child like your DS1 would probably really bloom in a school like ours. The kids that are on the bottom end of the results have their own aids, and your child would have both the extra hands plus the extra programs to extend him.

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