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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Totally agree - 2 years of preschool perhaps?
    Isn't that what kindy is in qld? Structured play based learning. They learn to write their name, counting, alphabet, days of the week, sport, cultural education etc. (It's far more structured and educational than 'kindy' was in my day - but that was when qld had 'preschool' and no prep.)

    Although it's only one year, plenty do 2 years due to their age (ours accepts children into kindy from 3.5 years, given 4.5 years is the current minimum starting age in school (prep) in qld and some people choose to send them then). At least half of DS1's class is on their 2nd year of kindy and are doing pathway to prep integration activities now for prep entry next year.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yes it is different. Big difference when you don't have to pay for 5 hours each day for a big chunk of the year. For starters rebate doesn't run out when you're not using it all day every day. Excursions suck however when kids are young you also have expenses (sport, swimming etc).
    There are additional expenses at all ages.

    I agree school isn't the answer for saving the budget. However I don't think we should be looking at it like that for 4 nearly 5 year olds and brand new 5 year olds. Those age groups have been sent to school since day dot. Sending kids at 6 is a relatively recent trend. Parents sending nearly 5 year olds/new 5 year olds to school aren't doing so to save money they are doing so because that's what's always been done and the guidelines allow it. If the programming is no longer appropriate for that age group that's on the education departments, not the parents.
    I did the maths based on the hourly wage for OOSH at my school...for three kids five afternoons a week for three hours (for a parent finishing work at 5.30), it's $1890 a fortnight (without the rebate...I don't know what it is with the rebate). Then there's all the extra expenses of school excursions, uniforms (so many lost hats and jumpers), birthday parties, weekend sports etc. It adds up. I didn't even include before school care in my maths.
    As for the programming, yes it's on the ed dept to fix it, but until they do it's the kids that suffer...so ultimately it then becomes the parents problem to ensure their child can cope with the current system.
    Last edited by Full House; 14-09-2016 at 07:38.

  3. #133
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    And this whole conversation is why I despise standardised testing so much. It's why so many teachers are leaving the career.

    It's data, data, data - the principals say to us 'make the results better', their line managers say the same to them etc etc etc.

    We can't just say 'Jimmy's brain hasn't developed sufficiently to understand that concept yet.' The pressure comes from everywhere.

    This term I have had to schedule three different types of standardised tests (online NAPLAN, Literacy Pro and PAT-Maths, Comprehension and Grammar). Where's the actual time to teach?? I know what the results are going to say, ffs, they're my students!

    Then we have the meetings analysing the last lots of data and reflecting on our teaching, and it's just endless, and can be quite demoralising to be honest.

    So while many of these points are very valid, particularly about play-based learning, it's not always that straight-forward. That's why the teachers on this thread are saying the expectation on school starters is huge. It's the follow-on through school as well.

    The year 2 maths curriculum (or might be year 3, I'm not sure) has so much in it - if the child falls too far behind at the start/isn't ready to learn when they start school, it becomes harder and harder for teachers to 'catch them up' as well as teach the new content.

    That's one reason why school readiness is just as important as academic ability. If you spend three terms of the year getting the student ready for school - ready to work at work time, to sit down at sitting down time, to articulate what they're doing at activity time, to be present and attentive when listening to stories and talking about them, to following instructions etc, then where's the part where they learn (the content I mean)?

    Sorry for the ranty pants.

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  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full House View Post
    I did the maths based on the hourly wage for OOSH at my school...for three kids five afternoons a week for three hours (for a parent finishing work at 5.30), it's $1890 a fortnight (without the rebate...I don't know what it is with the rebate). Then there's all the extra expenses of school excursions, uniforms (so many lost hats and jumpers), birthday parties, weekend sports etc. It adds up. I didn't even include before school care in my maths.
    As for the programming, yes it's on the ed dept to fix it, but until they do it's the kids that suffer...so ultimately it then becomes the parents problem to ensure their child can cope with the current system.
    I'm lucky to not pay out of school care, but just in the last 2 months I've paid a grand in excursions, and DD has chosen to not go on 2 trips for extra curricular stuff she has been selected for. That would have been over a grand again. DD is starting high school next year which is costing me about $800+ (a public high). And DS has had a huge growth spurt and needs all new summer uniforms which will cost me about 300.

    I admit I was shocked of the cost of public schooling

  6. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I'm lucky to not pay out of school care, but just in the last 2 months I've paid a grand in excursions, and DD has chosen to not go on 2 trips for extra curricular stuff she has been selected for. That would have been over a grand again. DD is starting high school next year which is costing me about $800+ (a public high). And DS has had a huge growth spurt and needs all new summer uniforms which will cost me about 300.

    I admit I was shocked of the cost of public schooling
    Me too. I remember friends with older kids complaining about how much school costs...and I thought they were exaggerating 😂 I now know they weren't! During school holidays I ask to work every weekend, so I can have my time off mid week...that covers two days during the week, then DH works from home one day, and we rely on family for the other two days. We have friends who take a day each to watch everyone's kids (10 kids all day) in a community run free daycare type arrangement. All to avoid vacation care costs every ten weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2BlueBirds View Post
    Vicpark it's the stigma. I'm so annoyed at some of the parents holding their kids back because the don't want them to be the youngest. If all parents went by the April cut off then it wouldnt be a problem because he would be amongst other kids turning 5 Jan-March/April, but it looks like other kids will be turning 6 making it more difficult for my child (I'm sure joining in play etc would be harder with 6 year olds as opposed to 5 year olds).
    I don't see why you're annoyed at other parents for making an informed decision for their child? Those born on April 30th for a May cut off date are a year younger than other kids which is the case for your child which is why you want to hold him back is it not? In my opinion as a teacher the cut off date should be the 1st of January.. if your child isn't 5 by then they go the following year. Some children are only 4 when they start kindergarten. For most children this is too young and they don't cope. It causes them to hate school and then it usually follows them throughout. If I had an April baby I too would hold them back..

    However, there's always going to be a year's difference at least between children since our school year goes for a year. I would look at a private preschool rather than daycare as I have to agree with VicPark on the matter of Daycare not being anywhere near as good as a preschool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renesme View Post
    I don't see why you're annoyed at other parents for making an informed decision for their child? Those born on April 30th for a May cut off date are a year younger than other kids which is the case for your child which is why you want to hold him back is it not? In my opinion as a teacher the cut off date should be the 1st of January.. if your child isn't 5 by then they go the following year. Some children are only 4 when they start kindergarten. For most children this is too young and they don't cope. It causes them to hate school and then it usually follows them throughout. If I had an April baby I too would hold them back..

    However, there's always going to be a year's difference at least between children since our school year goes for a year. I would look at a private preschool rather than daycare as I have to agree with VicPark on the matter of Daycare not being anywhere near as good as a preschool.
    I'm not really annoyed if they make an informed decision based on kinder feedback. However some Jan-Feb kids might be "ready" but parents still hold them back because they don't want them to be the youngest. Not all parents make their decision based on that though, I understand some parents genuinely believe their kids aren't ready even if they are born Jan/Feb.

    What about your Feb baby when is he starting?

    I'm actually worried my son will regress after 6 months of another year of kinder. I don't really believe he needs another year, it would be great if he could start prep mid-year!
    He's confident and academic but I'm just anxious about it all, so that's why I'm having him assessed in term 4 to help me make the best decision.
    Last edited by 2BlueBirds; 14-09-2016 at 11:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    At 2 x days per week I assume the rebate lasted the whole year.

    Try 2-3 kids, full time ($2,000+ per fortnight out of pocket just for 2 once the rebate runs out) and you probably wouldn't expect people to stretch for just another year.

    I don't agree that the evidence points to kids shouldn't start school until 6. And I don't agree that 88% of the worlds educations agree that a 4 year 11 month old child isn't ready to start school. 4 year 0 month maybe but seriously I don't know anyone who would consider starting their brand new 4 year old. Kids start preschool (more play based) at 4 or 5 and no one bats an eyelid at that. What the evidence shows is that our current kindy/prep programs may not be the perfect format for the targeted age group (5-6). 5 year olds shouldn't sit in front of PowerPoint presentations for 5 x hours straight type thing - common sense. Mould the program to fit the child if the program isn't working, don't mould the child to fit the fashion trend to send kids later.
    I don't think the education system should change just because people choose to send their child before they turn 5. If you're confident they're ready then they will most likely cope just fine in the first year of school.

    You're always saying you're a scientific/evidence based kinda person but you don't believe the numerous studies and other education and childhood experts.

    Pre school is majority play based. Big difference between starting school and playing. A 4 year 11 month old child is still not close enough to 6 that the experts recommend is the best starting age for formal schooling. If people think that preschool is comparable school then they will be in for a shock when their child starts school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I don't think the education system should change just because people choose to send their child before they turn 5. If you're confident they're ready then they will most likely cope just fine in the first year of school.

    You're always saying you're a scientific/evidence based kinda person but you don't believe the numerous studies and other education and childhood experts.

    Pre school is majority play based. Big difference between starting school and playing. A 4 year 11 month old child is still not close enough to 6 that the experts recommend is the best starting age for formal schooling. If people think that preschool is comparable school then they will be in for a shock when their child starts school.
    I don't think people really understand how intensive the first year of school is these days. Certainly has changed significantly even during my 14 year teaching career. Our little ones are straight into formal learning after they've settled in. Once upon a time we were happy if our kindergarten (first year of formal schooling) kids reached level 5 in reading by the end of the year. Now level 9-10 is the benchmark. The bar keeps getting raised higher and higher but at what cost?

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    Default Kinder program in childcare if funding isn't approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I don't think the education system should change just because people choose to send their child before they turn 5. If you're confident they're ready then they will most likely cope just fine in the first year of school.

    You're always saying you're a scientific/evidence based kinda person but you don't believe the numerous studies and other education and childhood experts.

    Pre school is majority play based. Big difference between starting school and playing. A 4 year 11 month old child is still not close enough to 6 that the experts recommend is the best starting age for formal schooling. If people think that preschool is comparable school then they will be in for a shock when their child starts school.
    In some states parents don't chose though, their kid will have to start when they are 4.5, like my DD who was born on 30 June and will go to school in Queensland. That's the rules here. So the education system does need to support that as they are the ones dictating that 4.5 year olds have to start school!! Of course the option is out there to delay start until 6 but then the kids will skip prep and half of year 1 which is less than ideal. And I would think harder to teachers for manage as they will have to assist the children who are 1.5 years behind in their eduction catch up with the rest of the class.
    Last edited by babyno1onboard; 14-09-2016 at 11:58.


 

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