@Sue77 welcome back i do remember you from the threads.
@LillyM I'm doing antagonist puregon 450/orgalutran and will start in around 10 days time so we'll be cycle buddies again! what dose menopur will you be on?
I'm just reading up on splitting the dose as @BlondeinBrisvegas mentioned, Wazzas the only Fs ive heard of that does it but it makes sense for even growth.
@Sue77 ok so, im writing this in a matter of fact way but i have to preface it by saying it was not an easy transition. At my lowest point, i wished that i was dead. It was the scariest and hardest thing that has ever happened to me. So, im 36 and i transferred a total of 6 embryos through ivf. That was enough for me. It broke me. I dont know how you found the strength to go through what you have. If you can do all what you have already done, then you can definitely do the transition to de. This will be a bit of a ramble but I'll try to put 1 point in each paragraph:
Ok so, one of the first things, is to rely on your emotions. In this modern world, we are often taught and encouraged to try to be rational with all decisions but there are some types of decisions which are actually better made by using your emotions. E.g. choosing something that is asthetically pleasing to you, e.g. choosing a paint colour or a piece of clothing. Ever tried to choose a paint colour? You see one instantly that you think 'i like that' but then you think, id better consider other colours and better think logically and practically etc... and after hours of thought and rationalising and looking at samples, you keep going back to the first one you originally saw and eventually you go with it. The point to this story is, sometimes when you're choosing or making decisions, your emotions do a better job than the rational part of your brain. So, when you think about doing another own egg cycle, what emotions do you feel? When you think about de, what emotions do you feel? For me, when i though about doing another oe cycle, i felt absolute terror, associated it with failure, i would tear up and imagined myself in the fetal position in a dungeon shaking my head and saying, " no, no, no, please dont make me do that again". When i thought about doing de, i felt hopeful, excited, nervous but much calmer and optimistic. That was a good guide. I used my emotions to help with the decision.
Next point, any time 2 people decide to smash some dna together, no one can predict what will happen. Beautiful people have unattractive children, smart people have children with low iq, perfectly healthy people have disabled children, we have a child at our school who has 2 disabled severly mentally challenged parents and she is beautiful and intelligent, i see siblings that look nothing like each other and children from genetic parents that look nothing like either of their parents. So, i figure even if my dh and i use our generic material, there is no guarantee whatsoever about what a child we made would be like. So it doesnt matter to me whose dna we use because it doesnt guarantee anything.
Sometimes perfectly healthy pgd normal in utero babies have other health problems that no one can control no matter whose eggs or sperm is used. I have a friend who had a perfect foetus. While he was being born, he got stuck and his oxygen was cut off for too long and he has severe cerebral palsy, cant speak, cant eat, cant walk, cant control his muscles, etc... He is 18 years old and his parents still get up in the middle of the night to change adult diapers.They love him fiercly. When i think about having a baby and my friend's circumstances, i stop thinking about that i want my baby to come from my egg. I just want my baby to not have cerebral palsy or any health issues that severly limit their quality of life. I couldnt care if my baby came out black, white, yellow, brown, blue eyed, brown eyed, attractive, highly intelligent etc... I just want them to be able to walk, speak, eat, fall in love, be independent etc... So, if someone said, you can have a baby from your own egg but they will have a severe disability or you can use someone else's egg and have a healthy child. Its an easy, instant decision. And as my piont above said, there's no guarantee anyway whether i use my eggs or someone else's.
Next point, i look like my mum and people think me and my sister are twins but i am very different to everyone in my family in terms of values, beliefs and the way i think. Even though i have genetic/biological parents, i turned out very different to them and i feel like the odd one out in my family, so having genetic parents and being raised by them also doesnt guarantee they will be anything like you or your partner either.
And, i also considered, so what if my child looks and is different to me. When i think of what i was like as a teenager, i hope any kid i have is bloody different to me ;-) If you try to choose a donor who has the same interests or personality as you, whose to say they will be like that anyway. At my school, i see kids that are gifted and talented at music or sports and their parents have no musical or sporting interests at all. I watch their parents faces at assemblies and sports carnivals, and they appear amazed by their kids and say things like, "i have no idea how or why they are like that or where they get that from". So, i used to dream of having a girl who liked to read, just like me. But who's to say that people who like to read are 'better' than those who don't. Maybe my kid would like sport and they would introduce me to a world i know nothing about and teach me to appreciate things id never been interested in before. Imagine if the world was full of people the same as you. It would suck and be dysfunctional and boring. Otfen the best, most meaningful and valuable relationships you make in life are with people who are different to you. They broaden your world and teach you to see things from different perspectives.
And, have you ever gone to a wide expansive empty landscape or looked at a timeline of the age of this earth? You know when you get that feeling if how insignificant you, as an individual, really are? Well, i thought about my dna like that. Is my dna really the 'best' out of all the humans who've ever existed? Am i the smartest, kindest, most beautiful valuable, perfect example of a human? If they were to try and clone a perfect race of humans, would they choose me to clone? No. So, yeah, my dna was important to me at one stage but i actually realised, its no better than anyone else's. Im glad i learnt that. Who am i to say im a better human than anyone else?
One day i was worrying, what if my child is really ugly? Then 5 seconds later, it occured to me, but what if they're stunningly beautiful, like way more beautiful than anything me and dh could produce? There's just as much chance of one as the other. Then i thought hang on, being beautiful, isnt necessarily a good thing. Liking who you are and accepting that is better than being beautiful. I know happy unattractive people and miserable attractive people. I want my child to have the same typical experiences, e.g. hating what you look like at 16 regardless of what you look like and not appreciating the beauty of youth , then by the time you're 30+ not really giving a flying fruck, realising you were beautiful all along and just liking yourself for who you are. I dont want my child to have a life where everything is perfect and easy coz they will grow up to be an a r s e h o l e. The struggles and troubles in our lives are what make us who we are. I thought about asking for a donor with double d boobs once coz mine are tiny and when i was younger i thought my life would be better if my boobs were bigger. Now i like them small. So i realised i dont want to be responsible for designing a person. Im not qualified! I dont know what to choose. I dont think any human i tried to design would be as good as what the 'universe' would make for me. When i look at my cats, i dont think if only you were more brown, if only your marking were more symmetrical, if only you were bigger, if only your tail was 10cm longer, if only you liked chicken more than fish, then i would love you more. I just went to get them from the pound and as soon as i saw them and knew they were 'mine', i loved them. I think getting a baby thats mine to love will feel the same.
Ive also never heard of anyone who had a de baby, who said they didn't love their baby as soon as they knew it existed. I have heard of ladies that had birthed their own genetic children that felt detached or disconnected to them for whatever reason. The de ladies who's stories ive read say they just wished they had have done the donor thing sooner, like years ago and saved themselves a lot of time, money and heartache.
So, i realised that i didnt actually want to have 'my own' child, as much as i just wanted to be a mum. Being a mum entails having no idea what your child will be like, having no guarantees about any aspect of their appearance, personality, life or future. Its about being amazed by the ways they are or arent like you. Its about looking at them and thinking you are better than anything i could have imagined. Its about forming a relationship and so, i figured i could have everything that being a mum entailed, regardless of whose eggs or dna they came from.
I also had a moment where i realised i was glad i didnt have a bazillion dollars because if i did, id probably still be trying oe and it would actually have made it so much harder to transition if money wasnt an issue. Im actually greatful that finances have put limits and restrictions on my decisions. It forced me to transition or give up altogether.
So... these are all the things i can think of at the moment, that helped me to move on to de. I really hope this helps and if you have any other thoughts about anything that i havent mentioned, ive probably thought them too and worked through them or maybe i havent and your questions will help me too. if you want to ask anything else, please do.
Your journey so far truly astounds me and i am in awe of how you have been able to endure what you have. You are the most warrior-y ivf warrior woman i have ever had the pleasure to meet. xox
Last edited by gorgeousgeorge; 20-09-2016 at 21:37.
a lot of really positive stories, I think that girl who hated having an old dad it seemed like it had more to do with his personality and sickness. Funny as I've been thinking a lot lately about needing to be fitter and healthier as an older parent..if it does happen.
Amazing that woman who fell pregnant at 49!
Regarding the insight thing, if people think you shouldnt have a baby because you might die, then that means nobody should have a baby because no one knows when they will die and everyone will die sometime. Whats with blaming your parents for dying? Yes. When a parent dies, it sucks dogs balls, i know, but its not their fault. Aaargh...insight...you make me shout at the tv!
@Sue77 I remember you too and remember when you were investigating surrogacy in the Ukraine.
*NOTE-I talk about my baby and my feelings about her here - I do not intend to upset anyone struggling in their ttc journey, it's purely to show the other end of the de thought process for those still thinking about de.
I have an absolute darling de created 5 month old girl currently sleeping and wouldn't change her for anything in the world.
I started IVF when I was 39. I did 4 stims and 5 transfers with one clinic then did immune testing followed by another 4 stim cycles which we banked for pgd testing. I found out on Easter Saturday last year that all were abnormal. My world fell apart.
It had been mentioned to me that part of the problem might be my eggs (my immune dr not my fs said this), so I knew it was a possibility, but the reality was still a kick in the guts.
I'm not someone who generally takes a long time to make decision so after talking to my dh that afternoon I started research on de.
For me, I just wanted to be a mum. My dna is pretty cr@p anyway so when I thought about it, giving my baby the benefit of healthier Dna was actually the best thing for them.
I read a little about epigenetics but really just said to myself - would you adopt? The answer was yes, but it's too darn hard in this country - so the move to de was easy from there.
I went to Hawaii in July last year and was very fortunate to get pregnant first go and have embies frozen. I still needed to do immune treatment throughout the pregnancy and till I was 36 weeks I was still injecting clexane!
I was able to carry bub so I don't know about surrogacy and can't comment on that.
In the end my bub has come out and looks strongly like my dh so maybe she wouldn't have looked like me anyway, maybe his genes are just really strong - she doesn't look like our donor at all.
But do you know what? When I was sitting there in the middle of the night feeding her and I'd had little or no sleep I didn't think about the fact she started as a gift of a few cells from a generous woman, I was just in awe that she was healthy, perfect and mine.
I am her mother, it's me she smiles at first thing in the morning, it's me she giggles at when I blow her raspberries or dance around the house making up songs and it's me she turns to for comfort, how she came to be has absolutely nothing to do with anything. My world is as it should be with her in it.
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Reading all the posts have brought tears in my eyes. I couldn't have done it without this group and the love and understanding in all your messages. It really makes a huge difference. Geourgeousgeorge , Charlie74, Chiefsgirl and everyoone else ... your long posts have definately got my brain to stop crying for sometime and think. Every word makes so much sense. Its just the wobbly mind and so many misfortunes I have had or most of us have had here. For me.....l think its just the thought that I wasted soo many years from 30 to 40 trying ivfs and banking pgd normal embryos, miscarriges, immune treatments and still not ending with anything or any definite answers..... I think I need to calm my mind down from this thought as we are already in the process of DE and surrogacy. I got the agency's email that the donor which we selected is available. I could have done the DE with my body with all the immune protocols and it also could have worked in the first, second or xxxxx attempt... but to be honest my body has suffered enough from our horrendous ivf journey plus a major brain trauma. I think I have pushed myself way to hard, but my determination and prayers have not been answered. As you all said, time is the biggest healer and I will let it do its job. As hard as it is to step down from this ivf treadmill without any concrete answers, ( as one side of me still keeps saying.... just one more attempt with OE and it might work, but I get very scared as to how many times it has gone wrong)....I think ten years is more than enough for us and .....being childless was never an option for us, so I guess this is the best way to become a mum.
P.S Your friend 's story gave me goosebumps Gorgeousgeorge.... God is so cruel sometimes ....
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