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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I'll just preface that I left WA almost 3 years ago but at that stage the Australian National Curriculum was being rolled out there, so I'm not sure if they have reverted back to the Outcomes based Curriculum Framework, if the things you listed are from AC Foundation or from the obsolete WACF. I'm too busy switching from AC to the 'new' vic curriculum to look it all up, lol!

    Bringing in the AC did mean they needed to push a bit more into the curriculum at Pre-P level and push along all other levels. That was not easy on anyone, regardless of when their birthday was!

    I'm assuming the list you provided are end of year outcomes expectations. They all look pretty reasonable for a child 5y 4m old - however I know when dealing with curriculum documents there can be some interpretation of what "achievement" actually looks like. Then there is the distinction between curriculum you need to cover and what you expect a child to know and do.

    "Use comprehension strategies to understand and discuss texts listened to, viewed or read independently"

    Looking at this example, what this means is that after you have read a book to a child they can tell you one or 2 details/main ideas and/or answer some questions about it (eg. Who was the story about?)

    They're all in "curriculum-speak" making them sound more complex than what they are.
    My 3 year old can tell me what I've read to her. She can even tell me about a book that was read to her at "school" but getting a child to read a book *independently* and comprehending is a little deeper than recalling who was in a story that was read to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    My 3 year old can tell me what I've read to her. She can even tell me about a book that was read to her at "school" but getting a child to read a book *independently* and comprehending is a little deeper than recalling who was in a story that was read to them.
    But this is not saying they should be able to comprehend texts they have read independently. If the word "or" was changed to an "and" then I would interpret it that way. Essentially this point is about demonstrating comprehension skills and yes, many 3 year olds will demonstrate this.

    "Use comprehension strategies to understand and discuss texts listened to, viewed or read independently"

    By the end of Pre-P, even at 5y5m (youngest child in the class), I would expect a child could read an early reader which relies on knowing 1-2 high frequency words and being able to decode the other words on the page using the illustration (eg. The cat, The ball, The shoe etc). Then I would expect them to be able to recall a couple of the objects in the book. I wouldn't expect many 4y7m (the youngest child starting Pre-P) to be doing this. But by the end of the year, yes, I don't think that is unreasonable at all. If they could do that then they would also get a "tick" for meeting the expected level under that point.

    I've spent (way too) many hours in moderation meetings picking apart curriculum, referring to department work samples and determining what "at level achievement" actually looks like for each child. It's never-ending!

    But glancing over those things you posted and having worked in WA at every year level, plus having a child who went to school in WA until 1/4 of the way through year 1, so being familiar with how it's done over there, it all looks pretty reasonable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    But this is not saying they should be able to comprehend texts they have read independently. If the word "or" was changed to an "and" then I would interpret it that way. Essentially this point is about demonstrating comprehension skills and yes, many 3 year olds will demonstrate this.

    "Use comprehension strategies to understand and discuss texts listened to, viewed or read independently"

    By the end of Pre-P, even at 5y5m (youngest child in the class), I would expect a child could read an early reader which relies on knowing 1-2 high frequency words and being able to decode the other words on the page using the illustration (eg. The cat, The ball, The shoe etc). Then I would expect them to be able to recall a couple of the objects in the book. I wouldn't expect many 4y7m (the youngest child starting Pre-P) to be doing this. But by the end of the year, yes, I don't think that is unreasonable at all. If they could do that then they would also get a "tick" for meeting the expected level under that point.

    I've spent (way too) many hours in moderation meetings picking apart curriculum, referring to department work samples and determining what "at level achievement" actually looks like for each child. It's never-ending!

    But glancing over those things you posted and having worked in WA at every year level, plus having a child who went to school in WA until 1/4 of the way through year 1, so being familiar with how it's done over there, it all looks pretty reasonable to me.
    The whole point wasn't really whether it's reasonable, it was about pre primary in WA being play based. Those outcomes are not from an English curriculum that is essentially play based.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    The whole point wasn't really whether it's reasonable, it was about pre primary in WA being play based. Those outcomes are not from an English curriculum that is essentially play based.
    I was talking with a friend of mine yesterday who is a kindy/Pre Primary teacher in WA - teachers here are fighting really hard to keep PP play-based despite the increased curriculum expectations...she said they are just a bit busier achieving the same outcomes in a play-based. I'm stoked as my youngest goes to PP next year and I really don't want him sitting behind a desk yet...

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    Default Choosing a school for my son

    Fwiw my ds did kindy and pre primary in wa before moving to nsw. We loved the wa school and he really thrived there.

    Moving to nsw for year 1 he has really struggled and is extremely far behind. Socially as well its been hard, the play-based wa system really helped him build confidence, where as his school in nsw only really focused on academics and not so much the socially or emotional growth of the child. To me school should focus on the whole child and not just how good their naplan results are (that's what it seems like to me anyway).

    We have an opportunity to move back to wa shortly (prior to the next child starting pre primary) and we are more than happy to head back there.

    Quite love the WA system tbh.

    Eta: for anyone who is interested, he learnt 60 sight words in pre primary as opposed to the 150 he would have known if he had completed the same year (kindy) in his nsw school. However, he did almost double the comprehension tasks in wa than they did at the same stage in nsw.
    The other difference was that wa spent lots of time promoting computers, science and Italian in wa. No other languages in nsw and the computers and science are taught by the classroom teacher in nsw.
    Last edited by misho; 27-08-2016 at 19:57.

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    Default Choosing a school for my son

    Quote Originally Posted by misho View Post
    Fwiw my ds did kindy and pre primary in wa before moving to nsw. We loved the wa school and he really thrived there.

    Moving to nsw for year 1 he has really struggled and is extremely far behind. Socially as well its been hard, the play-based wa system really helped him build confidence, where as his school in nsw only really focused on academics and not so much the socially or emotional growth of the child. To me school should focus on the whole child and not just how good their naplan results are (that's what it seems like to me anyway).

    We have an opportunity to move back to wa shortly (prior to the next child starting pre primary) and we are more than happy to head back there.

    Quite love the WA system tbh.

    Eta: for anyone who is interested, he learnt 60 sight words in pre primary as opposed to the 150 he would have known if he had completed the same year (kindy) in his nsw school. However, he did almost double the comprehension tasks in wa than they did at the same stage in nsw.
    The other difference was that wa spent lots of time promoting computers, science and Italian in wa. No other languages in nsw and the computers and science are taught by the classroom teacher in nsw.
    I think it depends on each individual school and the way they teach English. At the school I work at, we don't teach sight words on their own or expect students to recite sight word flash cards etc. and it's the same at my children's school.

    My children's school has language (Arabic) and there are a few public schools around here that offer languages but it's not in every school which is a shame.

    I'm not sure if you live in the area listed as your postcode but I don't live far from there and I assume vast majority of parents would have high expectations of their children and the school and expect them to do well in NAPLAN meaning that a lot of other stuff gets left behind. This is what I hate about NAPLAN and the myschool website and publishing of results.

    I don't see a problem with primary school teachers teaching science. They do learn about all KLA's in university. I don't teach my own class at the moment and I have often gone in to teach primary classes science and I love it. This term I'm teaching "material world" to stage 2 and we are having heaps of fun. It's not like I need a degree in science to teach them solids and liquids.

    Can you tell me what kind of comprehension tasks you're talking about?

    There's a new initiative in NSW public schools and it is very successful. It teaches children to read for meaning from the beginning rather than just learning sight words by rote. The school I work at and my children's school implement it but it's not mandated by the dept yet but I assume it will be soon given its success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I think it depends on each individual school and the way they teach English. At the school I work at, we don't teach sight words on their own or expect students to recite sight word flash cards etc. and it's the same at my children's school.

    My children's school has language (Arabic) and there are a few public schools around here that offer languages but it's not in every school which is a shame.

    I'm not sure if you live in the area listed as your postcode but I don't live far from there and I assume vast majority of parents would have high expectations of their children and the school and expect them to do well in NAPLAN meaning that a lot of other stuff gets left behind. This is what I hate about NAPLAN and the myschool website and publishing of results.

    I don't see a problem with primary school teachers teaching science. They do learn about all KLA's in university. I don't teach my own class at the moment and I have often gone in to teach primary classes science and I love it. This term I'm teaching "material world" to stage 2 and we are having heaps of fun. It's not like I need a degree in science to teach them solids and liquids.

    Can you tell me what kind of comprehension tasks you're talking about?

    There's a new initiative in NSW public schools and it is very successful. It teaches children to read for meaning from the beginning rather than just learning sight words by rote. The school I work at and my children's school implement it but it's not mandated by the dept yet but I assume it will be soon given its success.
    Are you referring to L3 @BigRedV?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    The whole point wasn't really whether it's reasonable, it was about pre primary in WA being play based. Those outcomes are not from an English curriculum that is essentially play based.
    The WA pre-p classrooms I've been in have not been 100% play based, but much more so than the Vic Prep classrooms. Plus more small group learning (made possible by having an assistant) and so much learning through 'fun', like Jolly Phonics etc.

    I also studied my Grad Dip Ed in WA and the emphasis was 100% on supporting children to learn to read texts as a whole. Sight words are only used for really HF words that cannot be decoded in another way. I never saw M100W etc, kids being given certificates for learning the next level and so on. The focus was always on text in context.

    My overall point though was that the WA dept aren't bullies making parents send their 4.5 year olds to school. A combination of a multitude of differences means that the younger kids don't struggle there the way they might in a Vic Prep classroom.

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    Default Choosing a school for my son

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I think it depends on each individual school and the way they teach English. At the school I work at, we don't teach sight words on their own or expect students to recite sight word flash cards etc. and it's the same at my children's school.

    My children's school has language (Arabic) and there are a few public schools around here that offer languages but it's not in every school which is a shame.

    I'm not sure if you live in the area listed as your postcode but I don't live far from there and I assume vast majority of parents would have high expectations of their children and the school and expect them to do well in NAPLAN meaning that a lot of other stuff gets left behind. This is what I hate about NAPLAN and the myschool website and publishing of results.

    I don't see a problem with primary school teachers teaching science. They do learn about all KLA's in university. I don't teach my own class at the moment and I have often gone in to teach primary classes science and I love it. This term I'm teaching "material world" to stage 2 and we are having heaps of fun. It's not like I need a degree in science to teach them solids and liquids.

    Can you tell me what kind of comprehension tasks you're talking about?

    There's a new initiative in NSW public schools and it is very successful. It teaches children to read for meaning from the beginning rather than just learning sight words by rote. The school I work at and my children's school implement it but it's not mandated by the dept yet but I assume it will be soon given its success.
    Comprehension..

    On a weekly rotational basis, one week they'd have a very very basic reader, and then the next week they'd get a book with questions that they'd have to answer eg: what did Jonny jump over to get away from the dog?

    I guess, if we hadn't tried the WA system first, we would never had known any different. It has been extremely difficult to catch up to the nsw standards. It's not nice to see your kid try really hard but get the equivalent of a D in his report for literacy, simply because his last school did things differently and he's starting year 1 from under the baseline.

    It would be wonderful to have the national curriculum all across the country, and in this case it doesn't seem to be followed. But I really do love that the 1st year of school is a bit more relaxed.

    Funnily enough,when I've compared the naplan results for year 3 for both schools, they are very, very similar.
    Last edited by misho; 28-08-2016 at 09:32.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by misho View Post
    Fwiw my ds did kindy and pre primary in wa before moving to nsw. We loved the wa school and he really thrived there.

    Moving to nsw for year 1 he has really struggled and is extremely far behind. Socially as well its been hard, the play-based wa system really helped him build confidence, where as his school in nsw only really focused on academics and not so much the socially or emotional growth of the child. To me school should focus on the whole child and not just how good their naplan results are (that's what it seems like to me anyway).

    We have an opportunity to move back to wa shortly (prior to the next child starting pre primary) and we are more than happy to head back there.

    Quite love the WA system tbh.

    Eta: for anyone who is interested, he learnt 60 sight words in pre primary as opposed to the 150 he would have known if he had completed the same year (kindy) in his nsw school. However, he did almost double the comprehension tasks in wa than they did at the same stage in nsw.
    The other difference was that wa spent lots of time promoting computers, science and Italian in wa. No other languages in nsw and the computers and science are taught by the classroom teacher in nsw.
    I'm so sorry your son has had to go through this. I'm fortunate that I'm related to a few primary teachers in Vic, plus my neice is 2 years older than DD - so I had observed her practising sight words and other "different to WA" things during visits back to Vic. So when we knew we were moving back to Vic I spent some time coaching DD to give her confidence in these areas. She was 12m ahead in WA across all areas but I had to warn her a lot that she may drop down because they teach differently and value different skills.

    I consider that we were very fortunate that she adjusted well but appreciate that not every parent is a trained teacher with the skills and knowledge to support such a transition.

    I did hold hope that a National curriculum could help this issue vbut further experience has quashed that hope for me. See this is an issue of "how" and not what.

    Last year, for example, I was using VCOP and 7 Steps to support my students as writers with great success. DD's teacher last year was using the same 2 programs but her style of implementing them put so much pressure on DD to remember so many things at once, her writing went backwards. Her teacher this year - again using the same 2 programs - has turned her writing around yet again and she is back to being above the expected level.

    All 3 of us have read the same books and, technically speaking, teaching the same stuff theoretically the same way but with vastly different results for the individual.


 
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