@gorgeousgeorge - this is a good post! I had 7 blasts in total PGD tested and many of them were "good grades" but yet when tested 6 out of the 7 were chromosomally scrambled.
@pingc383 hi lovely, pkease dont let me worry you needlessly- im not qualified to give medical diagnoses- if youve 'only' done 2 cycles, no one can tell if you are a poor responder yet. 10 eggs from a cycle would be considered good / normal response, so i guess at this stage, 1 good cycle /egg numbers and 1 not so good cycle/less eggs, who know? Sonetimes they say you can just have an "off" cycle. So in 2 cycles, they cant really tell if you are consistently getting a poor response. I guess you are at 1 out of 2 cycles. Whereas i was 3/4 poor cycles. My first cycle i got 8 eggs, 7 fertilised, and had 3 blasties on day 5, so i thought everything was ok. Then on my second cycle i only got 4 eggs, 3 fertilised and 1 blastie on day 5. So then i thought, oh, maybe this was just a one off bad cycle. My 3rd cycle was like the second one, and i started getting worried. My 4th cycle was a bad as cycles 2 and 3, so i realised things were not good at all and that my first good cycle was actually the 'abnormal' one in that it was the odd one out, from the 4 cycles i did.
Who knows, my 5th cycle might have been great and gotten a bfp or my 6th or 7th... but i figured i couldnt bear what i would have to go through for an indefinate amount of time with no good prospects of a positive outcome.
Basically, you and your FS have to do about 4 full cycles to start to see a pattern. I dont think any FS would recommend changing to donor ivf until after 4 full cycles using the results of the 4 cycles as evidence for suggesting poor egg quality. I think they feel that they are obliged to inform you that, now they have evidence from 4 cycles, they think things will be difficult.
I havent done the protocol you mention. I just did what my specialist recommended, increasing doses of gonal f until my last cycle i was taking the max. dose i think. I like my FS , trust him and think he is one of the good ones. He also specialises in endometriosis, as well as ivf so that my particular problem so i feel lucky he's the one closest to me. Its helpful for me that because i have nothing else wrong with me besides endo, that i count in my natural cycles as evidence that my eggs are poor quality. I tried for 16 cycles from ages 30-31 and thats young imo. So for me, it seems that even at the age of 30 it seems that my eggs were no good.
To be honest its that first cycle i did with 8 eggs that made it the hardest. I almost wish all my 4 cycles were crap because i kept clinging to that first cycle as good and hoping the next 3 were anomolies. @Maxwellsmum so lovely when someone says, "thats like me!" Iykwim. And, lol, if drinking too much and eating junk foid and having left over unshiftable prednisolone weight is an issue, then ive definately got issues mate!
Yeah, that fish in a barrel thing was said by someone else on bubhub and it helped me understand. I frucking hate fishing, literally and metaphorically!!!
Last edited by gorgeousgeorge; 30-07-2016 at 10:13.
@gorgeousgeorge - you are the best! Your post really stopped the tears and brought on the smiles. You have honestly made my day!! Thank you SO much.. When I got the news yesterday that the bloods were a BFN, I was so distressed (I'm a bit dramatic), but it's because my FS has been able to explain anything to me, so of course I walk away not understanding anything about the process.. You have just explained it to me in a way I understand! I can now enjoy my day.. Thank you lovely! I wish you even more success than me.
Lmao! I'm out and about, but what I would give to be in my PJs!!!!!! Got up this morning at 6am and spent 4 hours googling IVF and protocol and chromosomally abnormal!! But the best explanations were right here!!!!
I'd like to ask another question if it's ok.. My DH has combined c667t/a1298c mthfr gene mutation and factor 5 leider and about 12% sperm DNA damage.. Is it the case that it's always the egg or could the chromosomally abnormal embryos also be from the sperm or is there no way of knowing and one should just rely on the day 5 PGD?
@gorgeouageorge - the only reason I got 10 eggs this time is because I took growth hormone..
Another question for everyone, I have 4 frozen embryos from this failed second cycle. If the article is right and that the high stimms caused apoptosis, I may have 1 or no good eggs and the chances of a viable embryo are potentially very small.. If it were you, would you ask for all 4 to be transferred at your next FET?
@gorgeousgeorge - is it too late for you to study to be an FS?? You honestly explained to me in a way that caused the penny to drop!!!!! I finally get it! You have no idea how good that feels!! I was honestly going to go see every FS under the sun, in search for god knows what... FS are terrible at explaining anything.. Truly.. It's so frustrating! But I get it now! I just get it and I'm so over joyed!!!!!! I love you!!!
Personally I would never transfer 4 but they won't let you do that anyway. The best you could push for would be a DET and even then a lot of clinics won't do them now unless you meet their requirements. I had to sign a waiver for my four DET cycles.
If you have 4 Frozen embryos left and you are worried about their quality you could stim again and then get the frozen ones plus the ones from your stim cycle tested. I was borderline to doing that with my last two embryos as my clinic caps of the cost of testing after about 5 embryos I think it was $700 dollars an embryo or $3000 ish for 5 or more. (Those numbers are rough but to give you an idea) it is more worthwhile if you can bank more embryos to test.
Regarding DH'S sperm if you did ICSI then they should of selected out only the quality sperm.
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