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  1. #181
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    @pingc383 hi lovely, pkease dont let me worry you needlessly- im not qualified to give medical diagnoses- if youve 'only' done 2 cycles, no one can tell if you are a poor responder yet. 10 eggs from a cycle would be considered good / normal response, so i guess at this stage, 1 good cycle /egg numbers and 1 not so good cycle/less eggs, who know? Sonetimes they say you can just have an "off" cycle. So in 2 cycles, they cant really tell if you are consistently getting a poor response. I guess you are at 1 out of 2 cycles. Whereas i was 3/4 poor cycles. My first cycle i got 8 eggs, 7 fertilised, and had 3 blasties on day 5, so i thought everything was ok. Then on my second cycle i only got 4 eggs, 3 fertilised and 1 blastie on day 5. So then i thought, oh, maybe this was just a one off bad cycle. My 3rd cycle was like the second one, and i started getting worried. My 4th cycle was a bad as cycles 2 and 3, so i realised things were not good at all and that my first good cycle was actually the 'abnormal' one in that it was the odd one out, from the 4 cycles i did.
    Who knows, my 5th cycle might have been great and gotten a bfp or my 6th or 7th... but i figured i couldnt bear what i would have to go through for an indefinate amount of time with no good prospects of a positive outcome.
    Basically, you and your FS have to do about 4 full cycles to start to see a pattern. I dont think any FS would recommend changing to donor ivf until after 4 full cycles using the results of the 4 cycles as evidence for suggesting poor egg quality. I think they feel that they are obliged to inform you that, now they have evidence from 4 cycles, they think things will be difficult.
    I havent done the protocol you mention. I just did what my specialist recommended, increasing doses of gonal f until my last cycle i was taking the max. dose i think. I like my FS , trust him and think he is one of the good ones. He also specialises in endometriosis, as well as ivf so that my particular problem so i feel lucky he's the one closest to me. Its helpful for me that because i have nothing else wrong with me besides endo, that i count in my natural cycles as evidence that my eggs are poor quality. I tried for 16 cycles from ages 30-31 and thats young imo. So for me, it seems that even at the age of 30 it seems that my eggs were no good.
    To be honest its that first cycle i did with 8 eggs that made it the hardest. I almost wish all my 4 cycles were crap because i kept clinging to that first cycle as good and hoping the next 3 were anomolies. @Maxwellsmum so lovely when someone says, "thats like me!" Iykwim. And, lol, if drinking too much and eating junk foid and having left over unshiftable prednisolone weight is an issue, then ive definately got issues mate!
    Yeah, that fish in a barrel thing was said by someone else on bubhub and it helped me understand. I frucking hate fishing, literally and metaphorically!!!
    Last edited by gorgeousgeorge; 30-07-2016 at 10:13.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @gorgeousgeorge - you are the best! Your post really stopped the tears and brought on the smiles. You have honestly made my day!! Thank you SO much.. When I got the news yesterday that the bloods were a BFN, I was so distressed (I'm a bit dramatic), but it's because my FS has been able to explain anything to me, so of course I walk away not understanding anything about the process.. You have just explained it to me in a way I understand! I can now enjoy my day.. Thank you lovely! I wish you even more success than me.
    :-) :-) :-) well, youve just made my day too! xox Im a teacher, lol, so its absolutely lovely to hear feedback saying i can explain things well! Everybody else on here is just great too in terms of the knowledge on this thread and willingness to help and support others , its prob just that im the only person still in my pjs in bed on bubhub on a saturday morning, coz i gots nothing better to do, lol!

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  5. #183
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    Guilty as charged except I just got up and fried me up some bacon now I'm back in bed eating that and wondering if I should just stay in my PJ'S all day
    Quote Originally Posted by gorgeousgeorge View Post
    :-) :-) :-) well, youve just made my day too! xox Im a teacher, lol, so its absolutely lovely to hear feedback saying i can explain things well! Everybody else on here is just great too in terms of the knowledge on this thread and willingness to help and support others , its prob just that im the only person still in my pjs in bed on bubhub on a saturday morning, coz i gots nothing better to do, lol!

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  7. #184
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    Personally I would never transfer 4 but they won't let you do that anyway. The best you could push for would be a DET and even then a lot of clinics won't do them now unless you meet their requirements. I had to sign a waiver for my four DET cycles.
    If you have 4 Frozen embryos left and you are worried about their quality you could stim again and then get the frozen ones plus the ones from your stim cycle tested. I was borderline to doing that with my last two embryos as my clinic caps of the cost of testing after about 5 embryos I think it was $700 dollars an embryo or $3000 ish for 5 or more. (Those numbers are rough but to give you an idea) it is more worthwhile if you can bank more embryos to test.
    Regarding DH'S sperm if you did ICSI then they should of selected out only the quality sperm.
    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    Another question for everyone, I have 4 frozen embryos from this failed second cycle. If the article is right and that the high stimms caused apoptosis, I may have 1 or no good eggs and the chances of a viable embryo are potentially very small.. If it were you, would you ask for all 4 to be transferred at your next FET?

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  9. #185
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    She'd have to have a big stick up her ar5e and a huge ego to be like any of my previous fertility specialists (excluding wazza)
    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @gorgeousgeorge - is it too late for you to study to be an FS?? You honestly explained to me in a way that caused the penny to drop!!!!! I finally get it! You have no idea how good that feels!! I was honestly going to go see every FS under the sun, in search for god knows what... FS are terrible at explaining anything.. Truly.. It's so frustrating! But I get it now! I just get it and I'm so over joyed!!!!!! I love you!!!

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  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    Lmao! I'm out and about, but what I would give to be in my PJs!!!!!! Got up this morning at 6am and spent 4 hours googling IVF and protocol and chromosomally abnormal!! But the best explanations were right here!!!!

    I'd like to ask another question if it's ok.. My DH has combined c667t/a1298c mthfr gene mutation and factor 5 leider and about 12% sperm DNA damage.. Is it the case that it's always the egg or could the chromosomally abnormal embryos also be from the sperm or is there no way of knowing and one should just rely on the day 5 PGD?
    @pingc383 i dont know much about the dh's sperm results stuff. Other ladies im sure will know or be able to point you towards more info.
    I think, that the sperms dna does affect the embryo quality too though. I think, but not sure, that if the sperms dna isnt great but you have a good egg, the egg can compensate for the sperm for a few days, i.e. the emby will "look good" under the microscope on day 5, but a few days after that the poor sperm quality will affect the embryo overall and it wont be 'golden'. I am not sure about this though. Other ladies will chime in eventually and give better information, i guarantee. @BlondeinBrisvegas knows everything about eveything!
    Im almost certain that the only thing that can be done, to check your embryo is euploid (chromosomally normal ) is to do pgd testing. They literally count that the emby has 26 chromosomes, 13 from egg dna and 13 from sperm dna. Embys with 26 chromosomes, i.e. a pair (1 from mumma and 1 from dad) of chromosome 1, a pair of chromosome 2, a pair of chromosome 3, and so on, up to chromosome 26, is highly likely to result in pregnancy because it will make a viable human being. Im interested to hear what other ladiessay about the sperms dna effect on an embryo :-)

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  13. #187
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    Yes it's a double transfer.
    Hmmmm well that's unusual I thought all clinics offered PGD or CGH mayby its just mine because all mine have been really expensive oops I mean state of the art clinics. I have used Monash, Genea and QFG.
    Who are you with?
    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @Maxwellsmum - what is a DET? Is that a double embryo transfer? I've never heard that one before.. How does it work?
    My gawddamn clinic won't do any PGD testing at all.. They were so blunt about it "we don't do it here, we believe it causes other genes to be switched on during the process and we don't do it. If you want it done, you will need to go elsewhere"....

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  15. #188
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    Okay not familiar with them. I'm surprised they will transfer more than two I thought but I might be wrong that there was very strict rules for transferring more than two especially day 5's. It is probably just a clinic thing though my clinic QFG won't do more than 2 and even then they carry on like baboons about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @maxwellmum - I'm with Fertility First. They use their own lab.

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  17. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    Can I transfer my frozen embies to say genea who do 5-day PDG???
    I think so I transferred mine from Monash to QFG it was fairly straight forward. BIB did 3 day transfers I think to get her daughter. I'm not familiar with 3 day processes as mine are always 5 day ones.

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  19. #190
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    @pingc383 yeah i thought law was no more than 2, only after age 35, and after 2 failed transfers but each clinic or state laws might be different. If its your 2 cycle only and if you got 4 frosties that could be a positive thing. If the embys are poor quality and you only get a 2- 3 eggs n day 5, like some of us do, then its rare to get any frosties at all. I only ever got 2 frozen from my first cycle. 1 didnt work and 1 didnt thaw. So again, there's no way to know if your 4 frosties are golden but the fact that you had 4 embys at all is a good thing (in terms of response) and the fact that the 4 of them were good enough to freeze is also a good thing but again, thats no guarantee they are euploid/normal. It also coukd be seen as a positive thing to be able to transfer 4 embys without having to do and pay for, 4 full stim cycles. This sounds harsh, but that way, even if they dont work (which will be davastating each time that happens) at least its a cheaper way to gather evidence of suggested poor embryo quality. Some (lots of?) us end up with only 1 or 2 embies to transfer and nothing to freeze. So then you have to take all the drugs, have the full epu operation and pay full cycle costs 4 times and it takes 4 times longer to "try out" 4 embryos. So im trying to think of some things for you, in a positive way. Unfortunately with ivf despite everything they can do, there are still no definate guarantees of anything really. Its such a hard kesson to accept!!! Thats what makes ivf so hard and why it sends us all crazy! ;-)
    Last edited by gorgeousgeorge; 30-07-2016 at 12:16.

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