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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    Another question for everyone, I have 4 frozen embryos from this failed second cycle. If the article is right and that the high stimms caused apoptosis, I may have 1 or no good eggs and the chances of a viable embryo are potentially very small.. If it were you, would you ask for all 4 to be transferred at your next FET?

    They won't let you transfer 4 embryo's at a time Luv. Usually 2 embryo's or 3 (which I was allowed to do at my Clinic and only under very strict criteria/conditions that had to be met ) are allowed. The reason being is that they want to decrease the chances of multiples. However, the chance of a multiple pregnancy using your OE's (own eggs) at your age and older are pretty bloody slim.

    I'd be pushing for 2 embryo's to be transferred..called a Double Embryo Transfer...DET.
    Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 30-07-2016 at 11:43.

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @gorgeouageorge - the only reason I got 10 eggs this time is because I took growth hormone..

    The HGH is for egg quality. It doesn't do anything for egg numbers as far as I'm aware Luv.

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  5. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorgeousgeorge View Post
    @pingc383 i dont know much about the dh's sperm results stuff. Other ladies im sure will know or be able to point you towards more info.
    I think, that the sperms dna does affect the embryo quality too though. I think, but not sure, that if the sperms dna isnt great but you have a good egg, the egg can compensate for the sperm for a few days, i.e. the emby will "look good" under the microscope on day 5, but a few days after that the poor sperm quality will affect the embryo overall and it wont be 'golden'. I am not sure about this though. Other ladies will chime in eventually and give better information, i guarantee. @BlondeinBrisvegas knows everything about eveything!
    Im almost certain that the only thing that can be done, to check your embryo is euploid (chromosomally normal ) is to do pgd testing. They literally count that the emby has 26 chromosomes, 13 from egg dna and 13 from sperm dna. Embys with 26 chromosomes, i.e. a pair (1 from mumma and 1 from dad) of chromosome 1, a pair of chromosome 2, a pair of chromosome 3, and so on, up to chromosome 26, is highly likely to result in pregnancy because it will make a viable human being. Im interested to hear what other ladiessay about the sperms dna effect on an embryo :-)

    I most certainly DO NOT know "everything about everything" thank-you very much Luv!!!

    Plenty of Lovelies on this thread that know sh!tloads more than I do!!!

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  7. #174
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    @gorgeousgeorge I always wish I didn't know very much about IVF at all, Makes me sad. We shouldn't have to carry all this stress. No wonder I'm loopy.

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  9. #175
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    You have a wealth of knowledge @BlondeinBrisvegas

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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwellsmum View Post
    I think so I transferred mine from Monash to QFG it was fairly straight forward. BIB did 3 day transfers I think to get her daughter. I'm not familiar with 3 day processes as mine are always 5 day ones.

    Yes, I did a 3 Day transfer on my last Cycle only because it was more convenient timing-wise for my Ex-Partner to get the day off work so he could drive me there and back on the day as not only did I have the "Wazza Special" of the Valium "shooter", I also had a Pethadine "chaser" due to the fact transfers are excruciatingly painful for me due to scar tissue on my cervix from previous Gynae surgery plus my cervix was "tighter than a fish a r s e which means getting through the door is a lot more difficult" (verbatim from Wazza) .

    I was completely off my trolley and needed a Deso Driver on the day and that particular day was the only day the Ex could get off work which happened to be on Day 3. If the timing wasn't an issue, I think I would've grown them out to Day 5 which is Wazza's preference though he will transfer on whatever day you want

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  13. #177
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    @pingc383 I would never put all my eggs in one basket, but thats me and coming from an experience where I haemorrhaged a couple days post a 5 day transfer and felt like the embryo was wasted. Also, its not uncommon for the 3rd 4th 5th transfer to take, despite possibly being lower down the pecking order. I wouldn't lose hope after 2 cycles. (I say this as I head to the Police Station to report my Hope missing. She keeps running away from me). I have only had 3 stim cycles and each one was a different protocol and improved each time. Your first cycle is not always your best . Take the view the best is yet to come xx

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  15. #178
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    @gorgeousgeorge fabulous post!

    Makes a lot of sense... It doesn't sound good in my case but I'd rather know what I'm dealing with...

    You put things into a different perspective for me. Thanks for taking the time to explain all this! X


    QUOTE=gorgeousgeorge;8534356]@pingc383 i agree with @Maxwellsmum about poor egg quality/poor responder.
    Just because you get good "grades" it doesnt mean the embryos actually are any good. The grades measure how well the embryos progress, i.e. have they divided during the timeframe normally - right number of cells for each day, are the cells similar sizes and % of fragmentation. But these 3 things are the only things they can "see" with a microscope and unfortunately these 3 measures cant tell you whether the embryos are chromosomally normal. So really, they can look great and be graded AA but still not be any good.
    So the way they tell you have poor egg quality is even if you have transferred lots of "good looking-good graded" embryos or "poor graded" embryos but whatever they looked like under the microscope, they didn't result in pregnancy. HOWEVER they never really know, its not like they can test for it without doing pgd, in any definate way. They just conclude, if youve transfered lots of embryos but they never work, then your eggs overall arent likely to be good or get better. Yes, there may be a good few eggs in there somewhere but the drs are basically saying it could take a long time, many cycles and lots of money if you want to keep trying to find a good one. I transfered 6 embies from 4 full cycles, 2 were average graded and 4 were graded good/very good. But none took and if they were chromosomally normal, youd think after 6 tries that at least one of them would have made a baby.
    Being a poor responder means no matter what doses of stim or type of stims you take, you dont get many eggs. 'Normal' responders should produce 10-12 eggs. Poor responders consistently get less. In my last 3 stim cycles i only got 4 eggs each cycle, so 12 eggs in 3 full stim cycles. A normal responder could get 12 eggs just by doing 1 cycle. So they problem with being a poor responder is that your not getting good chances each time you do a cycle. If you have 12 eggs the odds of getting a good 1 are much higher.
    There seems to be a correlation between poor egg quality and a poor response. Many ladies have both. So, it makes it even harder to succeed. 1) you have less good eggs overall and 2) its harder to find them because your only pulling out 4 eggs at a time.
    Someone explained it like this once and it helped me understand:
    Looking for the golden egg is like if you have 100 fish in a barrel. The fish are your eggs. If you have good quality eggs there would be 20 golden fish in there. The other 80 are no good. This is same as normal fertility. I.e. 20% chance.
    If you have poor egg quality, there might be say only 1 - 5 golden fish in there. I.e. 1-5% chance.
    So you will have less chance of having a golden egg overall.
    A round of ivf is like scooping a net into the barrel and collecting a batch of the fish. Normal responders can scoop out 10 fish at a time. So they can find the golden egg faster (less ivf cycles) because after 10 scoops, getting 10 fish each time, thats the whole 100 fish- you would have found the golden egg for sure. Poor responders, only scooping out 5 fish at a time would have to put the net into the barrel 20 times, with 5 eggs each time to scoop out the 100 eggs.
    If that makes sense? The more % of good eggs and the more you can scoop out, the more likely you are to find the golden egg.

    I think of myself as having a small percentage of good eggs in the first place because i have tried naturally for 20 cycles and they got 20 eggs in ivf. So out of 40 eggs, they didnt fertilise or died off in days 1-5 and the 6 embryos i transferred didnt take. So im like none from 40. 40 eggs and not one of them resulted in pregnancy. I dont have blocked tubes so all my natural cycles had no reason not to work. So when i think, in a barrel of 40 fish, ive scooped them all out and not one of them was golden. My other problem with ivf is being a poor responder getting 4 eggs each ivf (which is $$$ and mentally and physically awful) its going to take so much money and pain to keep trying.
    I have endometriosis and the drs say often ladies with endo tend to have poor egg quality. Unfortunately im a poor responder too.
    There is a correlation in that its not usual for a woman to have great quality eggs and be a poor responder. If you are a poor responder, your more likely to have poor egg quality too.
    Wow, what a long posts. I just wanted to try and explain about how the grading system doesnt really tell you much in terms of your egg quality. Only doing lots of transfers and failing will indicate poor egg quality. And only doing lots of cycles and not getting many eggs will indicate poor response. xox[/QUOTE]

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  17. #179
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    ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1469863660.967943.jpg my fur baby had a groom today. She makes me happy when ivf makes me sad.

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  19. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingc383 View Post
    @gorgeousgeorge - the only reason I had friaries is because the froze them on day 3! They may not have made it to day 5! My clinic is against growing them longer than day 3...
    @BlondeinBrisvegas - I didn't know that about growth hormone! Thanks for the info! I must had crap crap embryos, even tho they were 8Bs with 10-20% fragmentation!
    @Billie2 - there are indeed risks. Thanks for reminding me.., sometimes I lose track of the "slowly but steady wins the race"..

    As far as the Embryologists are concerned, your embryo's weren't crap Luv. They need a benchmark in the lab (which is where the gradings come in) so they know which embryo's to transfer, freeze, test for PGD etc so in that regard, your embryo's were good

    However, that's only going by appearance. The only way to know if they're truly competent and chromosomally normal is to have them PGD tested I'm afraid or else you're just "transferring blind" and hoping for the best when you do..that an embryo will implant and when it does, that it's chromosomally sound etc (though to be fair, even PGD tested embryo's don't always implant either).

    As for your Clinic being against growing them longer than Day 3 that would be due to it costing them more as the embryo's have to be moved to a different culture media to grow to Day 5. Some low cost clinics don't want to spend the extra money to do this so will only grow embryo's to Day 3 and transfer/freeze then.

    I also agree with @Billie2. You've only done 2 stim Cycles. I know Wazza told me that he personally thought 6 stim Cycles was a fair enough effort to try using my OE's (which was all we were going to do) before either going the DE route (which was not an option for us at the time due mainly to financial reasons) or else drawing the line underneath it and having to get on with life knowing we'd given it our best shot.

    As you can see from my signature, it took 42 eggs collected from me of which 24 fertilised and 12 of those embryo's were transferred (with none of the remaining embryo's when we had any ever being of a good enough quality to freeze) before I was bloody lucky enough to get my BFFP using my OE's so I had a lot of dud eggs/embryo's before I was fortunate enough to get a chromosomally normal one.
    Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 30-07-2016 at 17:36.

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