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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    I think it's natural to be scared. That's the point of terrorism. But her fear is misdirected. We should be scared of Muslim people (or any minority group) already in Australia feeling marginalised and disaffected, to the point that they become radicalised and start thinking of joining ISIS or acting as a lone wolf in their name, as has happened MANY times to our youth already over the last few years, and these people were not immigrants.
    I think the fear/focus should be directed toward positive changes in society, education, acceptance and integration. People don't become radicalised when they feel they are valued and included in society.
    Beautifully put.

    The problem isn't with Muslims, or immigrants.

    The issue lies with the problem people- particularly angry young men of all backgrounds (white Australians have also become radicalised and are being drawn to IS) - are being excluded or excluding themselves from the wider society and it's breeding contempt and a desire to cause harm and wreck havoc on the wider society.

    It's not an easy fix.

    Sonia's comments were inflammatory.

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  3. #22
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    Default Sonia Kruger - glass house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss Sunshine View Post
    The issue lies with the problem people- particularly angry young men of all backgrounds (white Australians have also become radicalised and are being drawn to IS) - are being excluded or excluding themselves from the wider society and it's breeding contempt and a desire to cause harm and wreck havoc on the wider society.
    You make such a good point about angry young men! How many mass shootings in America were due to terrorism? Most of them were as you say, angry young WHITE men who felt disconnected from society.

  4. #23
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    Default Sonia Kruger - glass house?

    Look, she's entitled to her opinion. I also believe people with a public forum do have a responsibility to do a bit of research before they speak though.

    Is it racist? Well, does she specifically mean Islamic people or does she mean people of Arabic descent?

    If the latter, then yes, absolutely racist. If the former, well it's actually religious discrimination to be overly technical. But I actually suspect she means the latter.

    So, how is she, and how are we, going to identify the Islamic people? I remember an event not too long ago with stars sewn on clothes and so forth, and that didn't end well.

    And let's remember that the France attackers have not been poster children for keeping to the fundamental daily basics of Islamic faith. So how are we going to monitor 'how' Islam everyone is?

    I totally agree re angry young men. This is where we should be putting in effort, globally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    I think it's natural to be scared. That's the point of terrorism. But her fear is misdirected. We should be scared of Muslim people (or any minority group) already in Australia feeling marginalised and disaffected, to the point that they become radicalised and start thinking of joining ISIS or acting as a lone wolf in their name, as has happened MANY times to our youth already over the last few years, and these people were not immigrants.
    I think the fear/focus should be directed toward positive changes in society, education, acceptance and integration. People don't become radicalised when they feel they are valued and included in society.
    100000% this.

    Banning Muslims would actually make it worse. They would feel marginalised. Give them something to make it not worth risking. Make then unable to be brainwashed

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah1502 View Post
    What's the definition of racism then? Doesn't she fit into that category by saying we should stop Muslims from entering the country? At the end of the day it's her opinion and she can choose to voice it but her opinion is still racist.
    The definition of racism is treating a person or group of people differently/poorly because of their race - ie the colour of their skin/shape of their eyes/accent etc. Sonia Kruger's comments were technically not racist, because Islam is not a race, it's a religion. Anyone, regardless of where they come from or their physical attributes, can be a Muslim. It's definitely a bigoted opinion, but not racist. However she quite possibly was meaning that we should stop all immigration from the Middle East and if that's what she meant, then it would be racist too.

    I think it's sad that her opinion seems to be ever more common. As PPs have said, people generally are only susceptible to radicalisation when they are feeling outcast, disaffected, "other" - the best way to ensure we are safe here at home is to break down barriers between social and cultural groups so that everyone feels like an included and valued part of the community. Someone who feels like Australia is home, who feels welcomed and valued, is far less likely to take action to destroy the peace than someone who feels shunned and pushed to the fringes of society. But changing things is going to be difficult - idiots like Pauline Hanson and Andrew Bolt continue to be given platforms to spout their fear mongering, uneducated and racist, bigoted views, and as a result more and more people are swayed - hate breeds hate. We need a massive culture shift and I wish I knew how to make it happen.

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    I do like that David Campbell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Enough View Post
    100000% this.

    Banning Muslims would actually make it worse. They would feel marginalised. Give them something to make it not worth risking. Make then unable to be brainwashed
    One of the worst byproducts of terrorism is the sort of reaction that Sonia Kruger is coming out with in public - it's what extremists want. They WANT the "west" to turn on Islam so that more people can become radicalised. It's a slippery slope.

    I've seen this cycle in Israel & the Palestinian Territories for too long. Terrorists need Israel's retaliation in order to validate their actions and recruit new members. It's the same for ISIS and the same for any extremist group.

    Just as an example, before the establishment of Israel, many Jewish people immigrated to Palestine from Europe to start a new life. The population in Palestine at that time was predominately Arabic, and the region was under the control of the British government. When the Jewish population started becoming a problem, the British started imposing anti-Jewish mandates all over the region, public floggings, banning of prayer at the western wall. What happened in response? Jews started bombing and killing British soldiers. They became radicalised.

    The same thing happened in Ireland and countless other places in the world and in history.

    It's not a phenomenon that is unique to Islam.

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    What we need to do, is not allow radical extremists into the country. But then how do we stop the extremists from spreading their hate over the internet. ? What we need to do is stop hate by spreading love. Hate breeds more hate, it then becomes Them Vs Us. People in public arenas should really think before they speak. Why cant we all just live as one. ? hugs, marie.

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    For the record I don't agree with what SK said (although i'd like to see much more detailed background checks on all immigrants to try and weed out any possible terrorists/criminals etc) BUT I think it's very important that she did voice her opinion. Why? Because:
    1) there is a growing number of people in Australia that agree with her (therefore isn't it appropriate that we at least talk about this without throwing around the words racist and xenophobic?)
    2) we need to have an honest discussion about terrorism and how we can prevent it from happening in Australia.
    Now we all know that not all Muslims are terrorists. Duh. However 95% of terrorist attacks committed are by Muslims. I have read parts of the Quran and I have *one* Muslim friend who I talk to regularly about the Muslim faith. I am not ashamed to say I don't like the Muslim religion. Likewise I don't like the Catholic religion. But to me the Muslim religion is particularly ********, and preaches hate. Of course it is all in the eye of the beholder, my friend certainly doesn't view her faith that way. But there seems to be something about their religion that inspires young men to go and blow themselves and innocent people up. In their own countries and now in ours. Is it so hard to understand that this scares/upsets/angers western society? I dare say that Sonia has taken keen interest in the events in Europe and doesn't want any of that happening here. And neither do I!!! Can you discriminate against an entire religion? That wouldn't be the best way to go, but it still deserves a discussion. I don't have the answer, but I can understand the fear because I feel it to. Why do you think the UK left the EU? I'm positive that it had a lot to do with immigration. You can argue as much as you like but there is something about the Muslim religion that is devisive.
    Last edited by GingerKat; 19-07-2016 at 13:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    However 95% of terrorist attacks committed are by Muslims.
    Where is this statistic from?

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