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  1. #31
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    The world is getting scarier and scarier to live in. I can't really make a well educated reply (I'm not good with words lol) but for many years I've thought the way we love is quite odd, well not all of us.
    We live next door to our neighbours who we don't know, we drive into our garages and live in a brick building and propbably
    Spend a lot of time online and not in real life

    I really don't think the way we live in sustainable we live in a world where we want more and more every day and were breeding children who are worse.

    This is a very generic opinion I know not everyone is like this

  2. #32
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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I live in a very multicultural area.

    The suburb on one side of me ranks as one of Australia's most multicultural suburb. I think people who don't think multiculturalism works don't live in a multicultural area or don't know many people from different cultures.

    My children go to the local public school that has over 40 nationalities. It is very harmonious. We are considering moving and to be honest, the only thing keeping us here is the amazing school and the fact that the 2 places we would move to would be a white monoculture and I don't know if I want that for my kids.

    Prejudice is what makes people believe that multiculturalism doesn't work and it's right here in this thread...the implication that Muslim people are rude and don't look after their gardens There are Islamic schools in the 2 suburbs next to mine and mosques/prayer halls around here as well. My children have a lot of Muslim friends at school and in their sports teams and other extra curricular activities. I have many Muslim friends that I have met just living in the area. We have Muslim neighbours. They actually make the best neighbours because 1.) they don't drink so there's no loud out of control parties. 2.) they don't keep dogs as pets so no dogs barking all day and night 3.) they are quiet and friendly

    I am genuinely curious as to why people think multiculturalism doesn't work, especially here in Australia.
    I think it does work quite well in Australia but you look at the popularity of Hanson, all that crap that you see on Facebook and the fact a small proportion of young Muslim males are becoming radicalised and wish to do Australian harm means I think people can have a right to question if it's working. I DO believe Australia is a model nation that can mostly hold it's head high. But look at the cronulla riots- and the events that precipitated them. And it's almost impossible to have that discussion about pros and cons without people shouting others down as ignorant or racist.

    Over in Europe though it's a completely different story. France and Belgium in particular. Lots of clusters of isolated minorities where there's no hope for a generation. Very high unemployment, high crime rates, large numbers who cannot/will not participate in the wider society,ghettos which no others can set foot in including police, the high number of disaffected youth becoming radicalised. The constant threat and actual terrorist attacks. They are discriminated against and in turn hate the very societies in which they live. The fact people are so scared that nobody is willing to help the refugees and that the English people wants so desperately to "protect it's borders" that it's leaving the EU.

    Are humans of all races and cultures able to live in peace in a unified society? I want to believe, I'm just becoming so disheartened and not sure as a whole that humans are capable.
    Last edited by Little Miss Sunshine; 15-07-2016 at 20:32.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renn View Post
    All of those things are negative, true...but that's not the way I see the world. We live in the most peaceful, the least violent, the most opulent, the most progressive, the most technologically and scientifically advanced time in human history. History is full of war, famine, persecution and disease. We're animals, and on the whole, animals suffer immensely. It's part of life. We live though in such a time where it's POSSIBLE to experience a really, truly, positive and fulfilling life full of choice. That doesn't mean that the majority of people in the world get to experience that...but even the fact that it's possible is pretty amazing.
    Thank you for this post xxx

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss Sunshine View Post
    I think it does work quite well in Australia but you look at the popularity of Hanson, all that crap that you see on Facebook and the fact a small proportion of young Muslim males are becoming radicalised and wish to do Australian harm means I think people can have a right to question if it's working. I DO believe Australia is a model nation that can mostly hold it's head high. But look at the cronulla riots- and the events that precipitated them. And it's almost impossible to have that discussion about pros and cons without people shouting others down as ignorant or racist.

    Over in Europe though it's a completely different story. France and Belgium in particular. Lots of clusters of isolated minorities where there's no hope for a generation. Very high unemployment, high crime rates, large numbers who cannot/will not participate in the wider society,ghettos which no others can set foot in including police, the high number of disaffected youth becoming radicalised. The constant threat and actual terrorist attacks. They are discriminated against and in turn hate the very societies in which they live. The fact people are so scared that nobody is willing to help the refugees and that the English people wants so desperately to "protect it's borders" that it's leaving the EU.

    .
    100% agree with this. I was just having a conversation this morning about how terrorism breeds discrimination which in turn leads to minorities feeling disaffected and eventually radicalised.. This eventually leads to more discrimination, xenophobia, and hate crimes. I can't really see an end to it.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    100% agree with this. I was just having a conversation this morning about how terrorism breeds discrimination which in turn leads to minorities feeling disaffected and eventually radicalised.. This eventually leads to more discrimination, xenophobia, and hate crimes. I can't really see an end to it.
    Yep. I agree. I think saying that people who are acknowledging that it may not be working well, or looking at it with a critical eye must be prejudiced is quite unfair, really. Certainly, some are. But it's not a universal truth. I think at the end of the day we are all pretty tribal by nature when it comes down to it.

    And the thing now is that, sure I get the not negotiating with terrorists thing, but in the past there would be attacks that were attached to a list of demands. I assume that some of those demands have been met in some kind of secret manner. Does anyone remember Douglas Wood? I'd bet my house that money or goods changed hands there.

    Now, even if we did want to enter a dialogue, who would it be with? What could possibly be negotiated? What could be undone? It just seems like indiscriminate killing and pain all over the place. That's what I can't get my head around.

    There's so much to think about. It is truly overwhelming me.

    But, thank you @Renn for your perspective. You are so right, too.

  9. #36
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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss Sunshine View Post
    I think it does work quite well in Australia but you look at the popularity of Hanson, all that crap that you see on Facebook and the fact a small proportion of young Muslim males are becoming radicalised and wish to do Australian harm means I think people can have a right to question if it's working. I DO believe Australia is a model nation that can mostly hold it's head high. But look at the cronulla riots- and the events that precipitated them. And it's almost impossible to have that discussion about pros and cons without people shouting others down as ignorant or racist.

    Over in Europe though it's a completely different story. France and Belgium in particular. Lots of clusters of isolated minorities where there's no hope for a generation. Very high unemployment, high crime rates, large numbers who cannot/will not participate in the wider society,ghettos which no others can set foot in including police, the high number of disaffected youth becoming radicalised. The constant threat and actual terrorist attacks. They are discriminated against and in turn hate the very societies in which they live. The fact people are so scared that nobody is willing to help the refugees and that the English people wants so desperately to "protect it's borders" that it's leaving the EU.

    Are humans of all races and cultures able to live in peace in a unified society? I want to believe, I'm just becoming so disheartened and not sure as a whole that humans are capable.
    So what you're really asking is can Muslims "fit in" in Australia.

    Yes. Yes they can. And most of them do. And the ones that don't have probably felt ostracised all their lives. There are good and bad in every religion, race, etc. but the most interesting thing is that only minorities get all tarred with the same brush.

    The media has a lot to do with it as well. And Facebook. Yesterday 2 cars were on fire in Brussels and before anybody worked out what it was, everybody was saying the religion of peace strikes again, Muslim scum etc. Turns out it was arson, not terrorism. And let's take a look at today's events in France. All over the news. Yet less than 2 weeks ago over 250 innocent people were killed in a suicide bombing attack in Baghdad but not a whisper in the news.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 15-07-2016 at 21:22.

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  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renn View Post
    We live in the most peaceful, the least violent, the most opulent, the most progressive, the most technologically and scientifically advanced time in human history. History is full of war, famine, persecution and disease. We're animals, and on the whole, animals suffer immensely. It's part of life. We live though in such a time where it's POSSIBLE to experience a really, truly, positive and fulfilling life full of choice. That doesn't mean that the majority of people in the world get to experience that...but even the fact that it's possible is pretty amazing.
    "We" as in, we who have abundant access to food, clean water, electricity, Internet, safety, civil liberties etc.. We are a minority on a global scale. If you're talking about that "we" then I agree with you. Life is certainly grand.

    I'm not going to pretend that I sit around every day feeling morose about the state of the world while preparing my bug out bag and prepping for the apocalypse, but I don't think that our way of life is representative of the majority of the world population. Most of the world right now is living in poverty or is living in a war zone or is living in economic crisis, or just plain fear.

    You say that history is full of war, as if to say that we aren't in a war right now - but there are wars everywhere, happening as I write this, and there have been for decades. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Central Africa (actually most of Africa really) .. And that's just in the last 15 years.

    The conflict in Afghanistan has been ongoing since the 70s. The conflict in Israel/Lebanon/Jordan/Egypt & Palestinian Territories has been ongoing since the establishment of Israel. Before that it was world war 2, and before that.. Well you know the rest.. Then there's all the civil unrest across the globe, persecution, pogroms.. The Berlin Wall only came down in 1989.. 6 years after I was born. I don't think we live in peaceful times at all.

    I agree with you about technological and scientific advances. But disagree with the rest. Sorry.

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  13. #38
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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    So what you're really asking is can Muslims "fit in" in Australia.
    That's not what I'm asking at all. I'm not asking anyone to "fit in". I'm asking if people of ALL religions and cultures (and yes that means Anglos too) can get along in one society.

    I agree media reporting, jumping to conclusions and fear mongering (particularly in the daily telegraph) leaves a lot to be desired.

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    I hate our overly materialistic, consumer society, &I think we are destroying the resources of our planet. We have cheap crap (think: kmart) that is mass produced & cheap to buy. We put said crap in our house for 3 months, decide we no longer like it, and ditch it to buy new cheap crap. Homewares,toys, clothes... I think we (society) just love to shop and fill ourselves with 'stuff'. Add in valentines day, easter, back to school sales, mid year toy sales, halloween, christmas.... we are told to buy buy buy at every opportunity. Sooooo much waste. I dont think it is sustainable.


    In regards to violence and wars.... this has occurred since the beginning of time. We are hell bent on killing each other, for some horrible reason. Those in the US will slowly keep shooting each other, because their right to carry a gun is more important than the safety of it's citizens. The US is absolutely doomed.

    Multiculturalism.... I love being a part of different cultures and different religions. I have no qualms with respecting people regardless of race, religion, sexual preference. But there will always be bigots around. I am a christian, and on bubhub alone,I have been told that I am stupid and lacking intelligence because I believe in fairy tales. That my children shouldnt be allowed to go to a religious school. That I am indoctrinating them because I tell them that I believe in God and take them to church. That I am contributing to hate, war and division because I believe in God ( which for me, couldnt be further from the truth). So, yeah, that's pretty disheartening. When I sense the hate that is directed towards me just because I am one person who is a part of a religious group. But it gives me the ability to then not define others based on their religion. I would fiercely defend one's right to celebrate their religion, whatever it may be, & I would celebrate with them I have sympathy and understanding towards Muslims who are discriminated against for being a Muslim, because I've faced discrimination in my life too.

    Honestly, I dont know if we will ever learn to live in peace and harmony. It is my constant wish that we could all accept one another and enjoy and celebrate our differences, rather than resent them - but I dont know if it will ever happen in my lifetime. I hope so.

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  17. #40
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    Oh, I agree. I'm in no way saying that the majority of the world is as privileged as we are. More that...what are we comparing to? Ideological perfection, or historical reality? Life is...what life is. For the majority of people, there's a hell of a lot of suffering in that. But I disagree with the idea that we're doomed, or going downhill. This is reality. It's what life is and always has been. Humans are in a position now to actually care and attempt to solve some of those problems though, which hasn't been the case in the past.

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