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  1. #21
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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomia View Post
    That is a lot of "what ifs?"

    What if said child grows up to be an environmentalist? What about a life saving surgeon? What about a scientist creating life saving vaccines?

    Also, no one has mentioned the economic impact of shaming people to only have one or two children. People better be prepared to forgo fire services, hospital funding, and social security, because there won't be enough people to support (or pay for) those services.

    Let me be clear- I agree with the environmental concern, what I do not agree with is that it starts with removing personal liberties.
    You completely missed my point...

    Having more children does, on average, result in a larger environmental impact. I think that's pretty common knowledge. It's just a fact. There aren't many 'what if's'.

    Of course there will be exceptions.

    Of course these children have the potential, like any other children, to grow up and do amazing things in this world. (I really don't understand how that's relevant to the conversation?! I mean theoretically so could all babies who are aborted...)

    Of course people should have the right to have as many children as they like, no one has suggested otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    You completely missed my point...

    Having more children does, on average, result in a larger environmental impact. I think that's pretty common knowledge. It's just a fact. There aren't many 'what if's'.

    Of course there will be exceptions.

    Of course these children have the potential, like any other children, to grow up and do amazing things in this world. (I really don't understand how that's relevant to the conversation?! I mean theoretically so could all babies who are aborted...)

    Of course people should have the right to have as many children as they like, no one has suggested otherwise.
    Did you read Gentoo's post about aiming for a negative population?

    My apologies if you did not intend to support this point, the quotes stemming from that particular post made it appear otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss Sunshine View Post
    I'm surprised no one has argued about my comment I'm no longer sure multiculturalism works. I was hoping to be jumped on with positivity. Depressing indeed.
    I would have been one of those optimistic people in the past. Sadly, I am now starting to agree with you.

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    Last edited by Yoghurt; 24-07-2016 at 18:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss Sunshine View Post
    I'm surprised no one has argued about my comment I'm no longer sure multiculturalism works. I was hoping to be jumped on with positivity. Depressing indeed.
    From what I've seen of the area my grandparents lived in, multiculturalism can work and it did for many years. They started from an English/Australian area, it changed into mainly Italians and Greeks. Everyone accepted each other, immigrants integrated well into the area and it was great for years. Then a Muslim school was built in the street and the area went downhill. No one looked after their gardens, people were rude and it wasn't a nice area to live in. The only bonus was that when my grandma moved out, house prices had skyrocketed because of the school in her street.

    I don't stress about the future because no one knows what our future will be. I understand why people are voting for the likes of Pauline Hanson and Trump though. Look at Melbourne at the moment with all the aggravated burglaries, stuff like that and terror attacks around the world are scary and people just want to feel safe... No, I didn't vote for Hanson, but I know heaps of people that did.

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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I would have been one of those optimistic people in the past. Sadly, I am now starting to agree with you.
    It's awful that I feel that way.
    I want it to work, but I suspect it is a failed social experiment.
    When people have such different views and ways of life that are incompatable with the society as a whole and some of those have no respect or tolerance for the other I don't understand how we can live in the one society harmoniously.
    As I said in Australia it's been *mostly* successful but integration is key, otherwise suspicion will flourish. And in turn increase the hatred and bread racial ideation and terrorism.
    Eta: and the main society also need to be accepting and willing to let those who of other cultures and religions in. And I'm saddened to think a lot of people don't want that. Thus why multiculturalism is failing.

    I guess that's why Brexit is happening. People are scared and want to stick to their own kind, even if the cost is high.

    Mind you, people are killing their own people in America. What a mess.
    Last edited by Little Miss Sunshine; 15-07-2016 at 18:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    I feel it's more about what a family chooses to buy/eat/wear and their lifestyle than how many children they have. Does a wealthy family with a private jet, throwaway lifestyle and multiple cars/dwellings/products (ok, I'm thinking Kardashians here ) use the same amount of resources as a carbon neutral, second hand buying, food growing family? I think "stable population" parties are very one eyed on this.
    A small family living a green lifestyle uses fewer resources than a large family living a green lifestyle.

    I think that we need to be doing both - halting population growth AND living a less consumerist lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
    It makes me so sad to think about how humans are messing up the planet for every other species. I kind of feel like if it were only oyrselves that we were destroying, then it would be terrible, but somehow a fair cop. Unfortunately, in the process we're putting every other sentient species on the line.

    I just can't comprehend why so many people feel like humans are somehow more important, and more entitled than every other being, and that it's okay for us to wreak environmental devastation and multiply out of control. I strongly believe that we should be aiming for negative human population growth - no more than one child per person. On a planet with finite resources, we simply can't continue to grow ad infinitim - we will hit a brick wall sooner (I fear) or later.
    I think this is the biggest threat to humanity's existence, more than religious fanatics, bigotry, political unrest etc, is as you say, the problem of finite resources. Human being are consuming at an unsustainable rate. We should be seriously concerned about water supply - there will eventually be wars fought over fresh water. Thankfully we probably won't be alive to live through this, but it's quite depressing to think of what our children and grandchildren will have to face.

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  13. #29
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    Default Do you think our way of life is sustainable?

    I live in a very multicultural area.

    The suburb on one side of me ranks as one of Australia's most multicultural suburb. I think people who don't think multiculturalism works don't live in a multicultural area or don't know many people from different cultures.

    My children go to the local public school that has over 40 nationalities. It is very harmonious. We are considering moving and to be honest, the only thing keeping us here is the amazing school and the fact that the 2 places we would move to would be a white monoculture and I don't know if I want that for my kids.

    Prejudice is what makes people believe that multiculturalism doesn't work and it's right here in this thread...the implication that Muslim people are rude and don't look after their gardens There are Islamic schools in the 2 suburbs next to mine and mosques/prayer halls around here as well. My children have a lot of Muslim friends at school and in their sports teams and other extra curricular activities. I have many Muslim friends that I have met just living in the area. We have Muslim neighbours. They actually make the best neighbours because 1.) they don't drink so there's no loud out of control parties. 2.) they don't keep dogs as pets so no dogs barking all day and night 3.) they are quiet and friendly

    I am genuinely curious as to why people think multiculturalism doesn't work, especially here in Australia.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 15-07-2016 at 19:41.

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    All of those things are negative, true...but that's not the way I see the world. We live in the most peaceful, the least violent, the most opulent, the most progressive, the most technologically and scientifically advanced time in human history. History is full of war, famine, persecution and disease. We're animals, and on the whole, animals suffer immensely. It's part of life. We live though in such a time where it's POSSIBLE to experience a really, truly, positive and fulfilling life full of choice. That doesn't mean that the majority of people in the world get to experience that...but even the fact that it's possible is pretty amazing.

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