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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    *shudders* "Improving the delivery of services". Please. Privatisation of health services is a shocking idea. The Libs want to sell everything that isn't nailed down to bolster their bottom lines to get re-elected. As someone heading towards 40, I've seen what privatisation has done. It isn't good.

    The only outcome of this is higher costs and the tax payer whinging about even more of their tax dollars going to the poor.

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow road View Post
    Because spending $160 million on an opinion poll when you could just put a bill through parliament makes great financial sense?

    People have no idea how damaging the advertising that will come from a plebiscite on marriage equality will be for the LGBTIQA+ community, particularly those couples with children old enough to understand some of the inevitable vitriol that will be spouted as a result.

    And it's not binding anyway. Turnbull has already said regardless of the results he'll be putting it to his party before anything else happens, so call me cynical but I certainly don't foresee this expensive poll having any bearing on the actual changing of the marriage act, regardless of the result.
    The polls have been done over and over. Australians overwhelmingly support marriage equality. This is just a stalling tactic. It's like they are hoping one poll will reflect negativity and they can say "well, we won't be addressing this issue bc the people don't agree with it".

    Lots say the labor party hasn't been good for a while, the Libs are the same. Turbull is just impotent and too spineless to actually DO anything. Abbott was a total nutcase. The last half decent PM was Howard. Obviously being a Leftie I didn't support his views of the world, but at least he could lead, make real decisions and wasn't a right wing bigot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    What is the labor party's policy for marriage equality? What's their plan? Aside from launching an attack on a plebiscite that Shorten was fully in support of 3 years ago?

    Also, where are the LNP policies for privatising Medicare and education? Specific policies on their website please, not quotes from labor politicians about what could potentially happen under an LNP government?
    No I don't have these on hand, nor do I care to go looking since I'll just end up depressed all day if I spend too long thinking about politics. But I also don't think that actual policies matter, since we all know that pre-election policies are absolutely no guarantee of what will happen later on. But I'm entirely confident that some things are more likely with one party than the other, my vote is just betting on which party has slightly better odds of good things happening.

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  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow road View Post
    Because spending $160 million on an opinion poll when you could just put a bill through parliament makes great financial sense?

    People have no idea how damaging the advertising that will come from a plebiscite on marriage equality will be for the LGBTIQA+ community, particularly those couples with children old enough to understand some of the inevitable vitriol that will be spouted as a result.

    And it's not binding anyway. Turnbull has already said regardless of the results he'll be putting it to his party before anything else happens, so call me cynical but I certainly don't foresee this expensive poll having any bearing on the actual changing of the marriage act, regardless of the result.
    What kind of advertising are you expecting to see exactly? The last time I checked, Australia had stringent anti discrimination laws in place (see human rights website: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/emplo...imination-laws) and I believe that translates to anti-LGBT advertising being illegal. If there are anti-marriage equality ads on TV they will have to be so vague as to warrant them completely pointless.

    And I don't actually think an advertisement will change someone's sentiments on marriage equality. People are either for it or against it already.

    Why is a plebiscite an unnecessary waste of funds but a referendum isn't? Everyone was in favour of a referendum, the outcome of which would not actually be able to change legislation because there is nothing in the constitution that says marriage is between a man and a woman.

    A plebiscite will at least allow the government and opposition to determine what the true feelings are of the Australian majority on this issue. If there is a majority in favour of marriage equality, then many anti-equality ministers have already pledged to vote with the plebiscite result. Including ultra conservative Toby Abbott.

    I'm not saying it's a perfect way to achieve an outcome but don't be fooled by the labor party's rhetoric. They don't have a policy for making an actual change. If they did, why is there still no marriage equality since 2007? They managed to pass a lot of other legislation that the liberals voted against in the senate - carbon tax, mining tax, Nbn, the school halls.. Come on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deku View Post
    No I don't have these on hand, nor do I care to go looking since I'll just end up depressed all day if I spend too long thinking about politics. But I also don't think that actual policies matter, since we all know that pre-election policies are absolutely no guarantee of what will happen later on. But I'm entirely confident that some things are more likely with one party than the other, my vote is just betting on which party has slightly better odds of good things happening.
    One thing I can guarantee you that we can expect with a labor government (or worse - a labor/greens/independents coalition) is a declining GDP, higher national debt and a weak Australian dollar.

    If you don't care about those things, then I guess it doesn't matter what their policies are. Happy voting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    One thing I can guarantee you that we can expect with a labor government (or worse - a labor/greens/independents coalition) is a declining GDP, higher national debt and a weak Australian dollar.

    If you don't care about those things, then I guess it doesn't matter what their policies are. Happy voting!
    That is not true though. Aust's debt, credit rating and general economic position has been better under Labor. I don't have the evidence before me but a few people at the last election posted proof of this and the scare campaign that the Libs run to trick people.

    Under Abbott he actually significantly worsened the debt. That's fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    That is not true though. Aust's debt, credit rating and general economic position has been better under Labor. I don't have the evidence before me but a few people at the last election posted proof of this and the scare campaign that the Libs run to trick people.

    Under Abbott he actually significantly worsened the debt. That's fact.
    Are you actually serious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Cheese View Post
    I know people say they have a safe seat so their vote doesn't mean anything, but I'm so glad we had an independent dark horse last election come and just squeeze past the liberal member who thought she had a safe seat. She has had a great few years, the liberal are running the same person as lost and gosh I'm hoping she doesn't get back in. Judging by the comments on the local newspaper fb posts she will have a hard fight. All the stuff that is going around is attacking the independent not giving us any real policies and I'm sick of it.

    As for the senate I don't know. I'm not happy with either major political party. I worry for the future of Australia and what we are doing for our children.
    I think we might be in the same electorate I hope it stays orange!

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  14. #79
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    rainbow road is offline look at the stars, look how they shine for you
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    Default Election 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    What kind of advertising are you expecting to see exactly? The last time I checked, Australia had stringent anti discrimination laws in place (see human rights website: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/emplo...imination-laws) and I believe that translates to anti-LGBT advertising being illegal. If there are anti-marriage equality ads on TV they will have to be so vague as to warrant them completely pointless.

    And I don't actually think an advertisement will change someone's sentiments on marriage equality. People are either for it or against it already.

    Why is a plebiscite an unnecessary waste of funds but a referendum isn't? Everyone was in favour of a referendum, the outcome of which would not actually be able to change legislation because there is nothing in the constitution that says marriage is between a man and a woman.

    A plebiscite will at least allow the government and opposition to determine what the true feelings are of the Australian majority on this issue. If there is a majority in favour of marriage equality, then many anti-equality ministers have already pledged to vote with the plebiscite result. Including ultra conservative Toby Abbott.

    I'm not saying it's a perfect way to achieve an outcome but don't be fooled by the labor party's rhetoric. They don't have a policy for making an actual change. If they did, why is there still no marriage equality since 2007? They managed to pass a lot of other legislation that the liberals voted against in the senate - carbon tax, mining tax, Nbn, the school halls.. Come on.
    You're fooling yourself if you think there won't be. It may be subtle, but it will be there. Not necessarily by major parties but by anyone who has an agenda and a printer and can staple some bigoted poster on a telegraph pole. Of course it doesn't seem like a big deal to people who aren't directly affected by it, however it doesn't mean it isn't.

    Howard changed the wording of the marriage act to specify that marriage was between a man and woman to the exclusion of all others so I'm not sure why you think there's nothing in the constitution that says that?

    All they need to do is take out that clause. Not something they need to spend $160 million on.

    Furthermore, I don't vote for either of the major parties because I don't trust that either of them will do anything about it. I genuinely do not believe the ministers will vote the way the plebiscite says (unless it's not in favour of!) even if it's 95% in favour of marriage equality.
    Last edited by rainbow road; 01-07-2016 at 10:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    Are you actually serious?
    Yep I sure am. I'm not sure why you are being so angry with anyone expressing different views than your own. But I can assure you what I said is factually correct. We had a perfect credit rating under Labor. I would spend the time hunting down the articles but I doubt it will matter so I won't bother

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