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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think you're on the right track Del. the libs want to be seen to be doing the right thing (in the eyes of the majority of the public) but when it comes down to it they don't have the balls to go against the chunk of their conservative supporters who are right wing nutbags. So they are doing something that they think will make them look good however in reality is set up for failure.
    I really don't see it as a party-political issue. In my experience, most Liberal Party supporters, and certainly the vast majority of younger supporters, are "small-l" Liberals. Those who went through University at the same time as I did are in their early-40s now, and the few of my colleagues who are now MPs are as socially-progressive as the majority of "our generation". I really do think the ultra-conservative, misogynist group are dying out within the Liberal Party, and are certainly in the minority (and yes, there are still a few nutters from QLD).

    But RR you're probably right; given it's a social issue, and as you say, doesn't affect or involve most people, it doesn't warrant a plebiscite. (I personally get excited by "having a say", but that's my own issue!).

    If a plebiscite were to go ahead, I have no doubt there would be overwhelming support for marriage equality. And yes, there is something very distasteful about the government having to fund a campaign based on bigotry and intolerance. But how do you get around that? (In the event of a plebiscite I mean). The government cannot fund one campaign only. You start doing that and you no longer have a free and democratic situation. I guess you have to have faith in the wisdom and judgment of the Australian people.

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    Last edited by J37; 14-07-2016 at 23:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Giving air-time to these knob-heads is part of being a free, "liberal", society. I always like when the public is consulted/allowed to vote on important issues.
    In my view, human rights issues shouldn't be put up for a vote.

    I love a good vote - but this one wouldn't even be binding, and i think various Coalition MPs have refused to commit to voting in accordance with the outcome - when or if it actually came on for a proper Parliamentary vote. A useless, expensive and offensive exercise, i say.
    Last edited by JustJaq; 14-07-2016 at 23:50.

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  4. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    I used to be heavily-involved in the Liberal Party, was a Young Liberal etc, and not once did I encounter any anti-gay sentiment.
    *cough* Cory Bernardi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow road View Post
    If you don't want to marry another woman, you don't have to, so why should it bother you if I want to?

    .
    Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get gay married! Simple! 😃

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    I think it's pretty offensive to put gay marriage to a vote. And no I don't feel encouraged after the last election that it would succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Giving air-time to these knob-heads is part of being a free, "liberal", society. I always like when the public is consulted/allowed to vote on important issues.
    When's the last time a human rights issue was put to a vote though? Probably the 1967 referrendum to recognise indigenous people in the Constitution.

    And for that matter, when's the last time any important social issue was directly put to a public vote in Australia? Probably the republic referrendum - and that had to go to a public vote, because it would have been a Constitutional change.

    Representative democracy is what we've got.

    The public are able to have their say on legislation regularly if they want to too - quite a bit of significant legislation is open for public consultation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I think it's pretty offensive to put gay marriage to a vote. And no I don't feel encouraged after the last election that it would succeed.
    True, but it's a change to the constitution, which is put to vote - as they did in the UK (although that I understand was MPs voting, and why should they have the right to choose?!). They're not about to make up some special exemption to be nice about it. That's not how politics works.

    It will pass eventually, and in 20 years our kids will laugh at how ridiculous it was that once upon a time gay marriage wasn't allowed... Just like that time indigenous Australians were unable to vote, or women were unable to vote etc etc. Times change.

    I actually feel really sorry for our modern day Prime Ministers - from either party - it doesn't matter what they do or how they do it, they're bound to p1ss somebody off. They can't just stand up there with their magic wand and fix up all the mistakes of previous governments and keep everyone happy in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnygirl79 View Post
    True, but it's a change to the constitution, which is put to vote - as they did in the UK (although that I understand was MPs voting, and why should they have the right to choose?!). They're not about to make up some special exemption to be nice about it. That's not how politics works.
    @sunnygirl79, it's definitely NOT a constitutional change that's required in Australia (unlike Ireland), which is part of the point about why this non-binding plebiscite is so wrong. Same-sex marriage is something would be a simple legislative change - like the ones Parliament votes on every sitting day.

    It is in fact a plebiscite for this issue that would be 'making up a special exemption' (to be nice to the conservatives) - not exempting it from a public vote.

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  12. #609
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    Default Election 2016

    I guess the thing is, even if it's not a political party issue, fact is, we are lead by a liberal-national coalition who are hell bent on making it as convoluted as possible. They're the leaders and by virtue of that fact, it is their issue.

    And yeah as JustJaq says - it's not constitutional. Our constitution is already inclusive of same-sex marriages in the way it's worded (as deemed by the high court) so a referendum is not necessary.

    The last plebiscite Australia had was to determine the national anthem in the 70s I think. See that's a good reason for a plebiscite. Advertising for that is not going to be blatantly discriminatory with a campaign that is pro the denial of basic human rights to a portion of the population.

    If you think the idea of a vote on interracial marriage is wrong, which I'm sure everyone does!, you should feel the same way about this.
    Last edited by rainbow road; 15-07-2016 at 07:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    And yes, there is something very distasteful about the government having to fund a campaign based on bigotry and intolerance. But how do you get around that? (In the event of a plebiscite I mean). The government cannot fund one campaign only. You start doing that and you no longer have a free and democratic situation. I guess you have to have faith in the wisdom and judgment of the Australian people.
    The government doesn't need to fund anything. They can do something bold and put legislation before parliament and have a conscious vote - to have some faith in the members of parliament (apart from Pauline) that the people elected

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