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  1. #521
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    Default Election 2016

    There has been very few times the country has been in surplus. There is no doubt that Howard got us into surplus on the back of the mining boom and sales of assets. It's not something to be proud of, there should've been a much bigger surplus than $20 billion.

    The fact is that Wayne Swan didn't have the revenue that Costello had.

    The Australian dollar averaged 68c under Howard and 93c under Rudd/Gillard.

    Over $40billion of the $96billion of debt that Costello inherited was from the Fraser years. Between 1996 and 2007, Howard sold government assets worth $72 billion with more to spare creating the surplus. When Hawke got elected the country was in recession and the budget was a mess.

    Australia maintained quarterly economic growth and AAA credit rating under Rudd/Gillard. That didn't happen by chance.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    Illegal boat arrivals was an issue that had to be dealt with effectively and the Howard government at the time did that. Children overboard was really awful to witness. What about the thousands of children and others who died at sea during the labor government's term between 2007 and 2013? What about the people who burned themselves alive in detention centres? A lot of suffering and loss when that policy didn't need to be changed - yes TPV were not ideal if you were a refugee in Australia who's situation back in your home country changed, but how often did that happen? Meanwhile, those people were able to work here and have access to a range of Centrelink benefits and healthcare. We can criticise the pacific solution until the cows come home but you can't deny that by 2007 there was virtually no asylum seeker issue, and the Rudd government opened the floodgates for people smuggling and all the horror that comes with that.

    You seem to have a very deep insight into the negotiations, articulation and specific comments made in those private meetings between Tony Abbott and the crossbenchers..
    Maybe Abbott wasn't a good negotiator, or maybe he just wasn't willing to concede that much power to random parliament members that didn't have the coalition's voters interests at heart? Who knows?

    As for the coalition being made up of various parties, I don't see what's "funny" about that or why it even needs to be brought up. People know who they are voting for if they vote for a member of the coalition. They know who will be in government and who will lead in that government. They know what policies have been promised. I don't see it being any different to the labor government which is made up of different factions, different members who represent the interests of their specific electorates who all have different local issues that are important to them.
    Let's think back to the cause of the asylum seeker "issue!" People flee because their country is in the middle of a war. I'm almost certain most would rather stay in their own country if it was safe.


    Tony Abbott's "ar$e" comment was very well documented. And I specifically remember them saying it at the time why they chose Gillard. He would've taken his chance then to be PM.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post

    The Australian dollar averaged 68c under Howard and 93c under Rudd/Gillard.
    The Australian dollar was above parity post GFC because the US economy (and most of the rest of the world) had gone to sh!t, and international interest rates was practically Nil. The interest rate in Australia was relatively high by global standards which meant that more people were investing in Australian currency. It has very little to do with who was in government at the time.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Let's think back to the cause of the asylum seeker "issue!" People flee because their country is in the middle of a war. I'm almost certain most would rather stay in their own country if it was safe.
    I don't disagree with you. But what's your point? I'm not saying refugees are 'bad' or we shouldn't take them in. On the contrary! Let them come! Plenty of room here in this country for them!

  5. #525
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    Default Election 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    The Australian dollar was above parity post GFC because the US economy (and most of the rest of the world) had gone to sh!t, and international interest rates was practically Nil. The interest rate in Australia was relatively high by global standards which meant that more people were investing in Australian currency. It has very little to do with who was in government at the time.
    LOL! You said earlier in this thread that the Aussie dollar will always be lower under labor but when you are wrong about that, they don't get the credit for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    I don't disagree with you. But what's your point? I'm not saying refugees are 'bad' or we shouldn't take them in. On the contrary! Let them come! Plenty of room here in this country for them!
    The point is TPV are awful and we should just let them stay. If they want to go back when their country is safe, fine but they shouldn't be forced to and their families should be allowed to come.

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    LOL! You said earlier in this thread that the Aussie dollar will always be lower under labor but when you are wrong about that, they don't get the credit for it
    Did I? well then I was wrong before.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    The point is TPV are awful and we should just let them stay. If they want to go back when their country is safe, fine but they shouldn't be forced to and their families should be allowed to come.
    TPV are awful. They leave people living in limbo.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    The point is TPV are awful and we should just let them stay. If they want to go back when their country is safe, fine but they shouldn't be forced to and their families should be allowed to come.
    The problem with abolishing TPVs was that it sent a message to people who want to exploit our immigration laws, that they can profit from vulnerable people who are genuine refugees, and also open up channels that had previously been closed, to people who just want to immigrate to this country, but pose as refugees when they actually aren't.

    As I have stated above more than once - I haven't got an issue with refugees or immigration - I just think that there should be a policy in place that allows people to enter this country safely. And if that means increasing refugee quotas, and granting permanent visas to genuine refugees that have been here for a period of time and have established themselves here and do not want to return home, then that is a policy I would 100% support.

    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post

    The 'economic refugees' or 'queue jumpers' or whatever you want to call them are only a portion of the people who arrive by boat and they are sent home. (I'd be interested to know what percentage if anyone has data?) Unfortunately the media focusses on these people instead of the rest of the asylum seekers who are literally fleeing for their lives and deserve our support and respect.
    FYI:

    The number of asylum seekers assessed as genuine refugees via the Pacific Solution process was lower than for onshore processing.[citation needed] 68 per cent of the asylum seekers were deemed genuine refugees and less than 40 per cent of asylum seekers sent to Nauru received resettlement in Australia.[citation needed] A 2006 report by the Australian Human Rights Commission showed that of the 1509 asylum seekers sent to Nauru by that time, 586 were granted Australian resettlement (39%), 360 resettled in New Zealand (24%), 19 resettled in Sweden (1.2%), 10 in Canada (<1%) and 4 in Norway (<1%). A total of 482 asylum seekers (32%) were deemed not genuine refugees and sent home.[23]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Solution

    ETA: This graph:

    BoatArrivals.jpg
    Last edited by witherwings; 08-07-2016 at 13:57.

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  11. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    TPV are awful. They leave people living in limbo.
    Yes, living in limbo would be awful. How many people had TPVs during the 7 years that the Pacific Solution was implemented? According to the Australian Human Rights Commission report that I referenced before, there were 586 refugees resettled in Australia, and I assume they all had been granted TPVs, and therefore living in limbo.

    Since 2008, there were about 52,000 boat arrivals according to the graph I posted before - I wonder how it is living in limbo in a detention centre...?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if we are talking about absolute human suffering, under which policy was there more suffering?

    ETA - I dont think that figure above includes those people who actually died at sea. Correct me if I'm wrong.


 

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