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  1. #511
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    For the record, I don't have an issue with refugees. I actually believe in open borders, I think anyone wanting to come to Australia should be allowed to for whatever reason, whether it's for asylum or for economic reasons. My family came here for economic reasons as did many of my friends. Why should we be afforded that privilege and not others? Anyone in Australia who isn't indigenous came from somewhere after all..

    I just oppose policies that enable criminals to take advantage of vulnerable people and result in loss of life.

    As for "operation sovereign borders", the draconian immigration policy of the Abbott government and consequent secrecy around naval operations which were obviously in contravention of various international laws, together with the gag placed on workers in detention centres about the horrific conditions in those centres absolutely disgusts me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    What about so-called "economic refugees"? Should they be allowed to arrive illegally?

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    I don't know. Do they have status as asylum seekers under the relevant United Nations conventions?

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    Default Election 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I don't know. Do they have status as asylum seekers under the relevant United Nations conventions?
    No - economic refugees have another name - migrants.

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    Default Election 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    While I don't believe the ALP have all the answers in regard to refugees (the detention centres are inhuman), the Libs hardly have policy that can be considered humanitarian. Turning back rickety boats already hundreds of kms on their journey back to the place they are running from with a 'not our problem' stance is hardly decent.

    And the govt having to bow to public pressure to take Syrian refugees that were dying and starving was awful.

    The 2007-10 period was actually a really successful one for Australia. We were in the top 5 nations in the world to recover from the GFC. The Libs like to go on about the debt, but their proposal was actually 90% of the cost of the ALP's package, but instead of everyone benefiting, it was only tax cuts for middle to high income. I wasn't overly a Gillard fan, but she ruled under enormous pressures. The GFC, Rudd, a minority govt.
    The stimulus package definitely had a significant impact on economic growth during the GFC. My point is that the reason the funds were there for that stimulus package was because of good economic management during the 11 years preceding the labor term in government.

    If any country was easily able to come up with a stimulus package to "save" their economy during the GFC they would have done it. But they didn't have the resources available.

    I agree with you that the current immigration policy is inhumane. It started in 2013 under Gillard and has only gotten worse since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings;
    I agree with you that the current immigration policy is inhumane. It started in 2013 under Gillard and has only gotten worse since.
    no it started with the Howard government.

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    Default Election 2016

    I don't think either government has handled asylum seekers all that well. It's a tough issue though, not sure what the solution is. Some things that need to change are:
    - Faster processing of claims. We should be throwing money at resourcing the processing of claims instead of paying to keep people in detention. It is inhumane to keep people in detention for longer than 6 months and completely unacceptable IMO. Those who are refugees can be resettled quickly and start the new lives they so deserve. Those who are found not to be refugees can be repatriated quicklyand start their lives again too.
    - Provide much nicer detention centres. I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with the use of detention centres but at least they need to be decent facilities.
    - Increase Australia's intake of refugees.
    - Increase ways that people can apply for asylum without needing to travel by sea through Indonesia.
    - STOP the resettlement of legitimate refugees in PNG. This is the most inhumane stupid plan the government has ever come up with. Makes my blood boil. 😡
    Last edited by babyno1onboard; 08-07-2016 at 11:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    The stimulus package definitely had a significant impact on economic growth during the GFC. My point is that the reason the funds were there for that stimulus package was because of good economic management during the 11 years preceding the labor term in government.

    If any country was easily able to come up with a stimulus package to "save" their economy during the GFC they would have done it. But they didn't have the resources available.

    I agree with you that the current immigration policy is inhumane. It started in 2013 under Gillard and has only gotten worse since.
    Howard was PM during a good time in our economy though. The beginning of the mining boom. He also sold off a lot of infrastructure, like Telstra which reaped billions. I'm not saying he didn't make good decisions, I actually think he was one of the better LNP PM's. But you can't compare Howard and Gillard. Howard ruled in a prosperous time with lots of privatisation. Gillard ruled under the GFC and later with a minority govt. And I'm sure Howard was actually the biggest spender... ever I think. I have to put the baby down for a sleep but I'll look for the articles I read stating that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    I don't think either government has handled asylum seekers all that well. It's a tough issue though, not sure what the solution is. Some things that need to change are:
    - Faster processing of claims. We should be throwing money at resourcing the processing of claims instead of paying to keep people in detention. It is inhumane to keep people in detention for longer than 6 months and completely unacceptable IMO. Those who are refugees can be resettled quickly and start the new lives they so deserve. Those who are found not to be refugees can be repatriated quicklyand start their lives again too.
    - Provide much nicer detention centres. I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with the use of detention centres but at least they need to be decent facilities.
    - Increase Australia's intake of refugees.
    - Increase ways that people can apply for asylum without needing to travel by sea through Indonesia.
    - STOP the resettlement of legitimate refugees in PNG. This is the most inhumane stupid plan the government has ever come up with. Makes my blood boil.
    Yes! Agree with everything you said.

  12. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Howard was PM during a good time in our economy though. The beginning of the mining boom. He also sold off a lot of infrastructure, like Telstra which reaped billions. I'm not saying he didn't make good decisions, I actually think he was one of the better LNP PM's. But you can't compare Howard and Gillard. Howard ruled in a prosperous time with lots of privatisation. Gillard ruled under the GFC and later with a minority govt. And I'm sure Howard was actually the biggest spender... ever I think. I have to put the baby down for a sleep but I'll look for the articles I read stating that.
    It seems to be a case of "what came first?.. was it a prosperous time because of our government, or did our government make the most of a prosperous time in our history? This is something that I don't believe we can answer.

    But I do know that privatisation is something that falls within Liberal's ideology, not Labor. If it was Keating as PM during those same prosperous times, would he have made the same decisions? In fact, the Labor party strongly opposed the full privatisation of Telstra and nearly triggered a double dissolution over it when they blocked the legislation in the senate in 2004.

    Other things like tax reform (the GST for example) and free trade agreements would not have been achieved under a labor government.

    In addition, the Howard government, after 10 years in office, was able to pay off almost $100b of national debt inherited from the previous Labor government.

    I don't believe you can say that these achievements were a result of prosperous times, but we will have to agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    What about so-called "economic refugees"? Should they be allowed to arrive illegally?

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    No one is allowed to arrive illegally, hence it's illegal..?

    People come seeking asylum. This is legal. Their claims are processed and go one of two ways:

    1) They are found to be legitimate refugees and provided resettlement (here or other counties accepting refugees).
    2) They are found not to be refugees. Some people knew this when they left their home country and were just 'trying their luck' (I think this is who people are referring to as 'economic refugees' and 'queue jumpers') and others who genuinely thought their situation warranted refugee status and in some cases it probably was when they left, however, the situation has since improved in their home country. These people are repatriated to their home country.

    The 'economic refugees' or 'queue jumpers' or whatever you want to call them are only a portion of the people who arrive by boat and they are sent home. (I'd be interested to know what percentage if anyone has data?) Unfortunately the media focusses on these people instead of the rest of the asylum seekers who are literally fleeing for their lives and deserve our support and respect.
    Last edited by babyno1onboard; 08-07-2016 at 12:58.


 

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