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  1. #161
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    You know that sinking feeling you get when you compose a ridiculously long response and then your app crashes. Yeah that.

    😁

  2. #162
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    1) company tax cuts - here's a great article written by Alan Joyce that sums up my sentiments on the matter perfectly:

    http://www.bca.com.au/media/reduce-c...-will-take-off

    Basically, if you cut company tax, companies will have more after tax profits available to reinvest, or take on more workers or increase salaries or increase production - basically a whole lot of opportunities to stimulate growth and wages which will in turn increase government tax revenue, GST revenue, and reduce welfare payments, as well as various other flow on effects - all positive. It's hard to quantify exactly how much the economy and the government will get back in return for cutting the $48bn or whatever it is from company tax, but the short of it is, it's going to be good for the economy overall. Let's not forget these tax cuts are not just for "big business". The majority of businesses in Australia are small-medium enterprise. Lots of single-director companies or family businesses that are struggling to get by, just like the majority of ordinary Australians.

    I wrote a lengthy explanation about how company tax isn't even really guaranteed government revenue in any case, with various examples of how dividends and franking credits work but I can't be bothered writing it all up again, so if you're interested, just google franking credits to get an idea.

    TBC..

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  4. #163
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    Default Election 2016

    2) spending $160m on a plebiscite. As I've said numerous times, I don't think it's the best scenario to have one, but it's better than nothing, which is what has been done up until now. I think the reason Malcolm Turnbull wants a plebiscite is because the outcome of it, while not binding, will put pressure on the ministers in his party to vote for marriage equality. He isn't conservative enough to persuade them with his smooth talking, he needs the support of the general public, particularly after having his leadership validated by an election win. Time will tell I suppose, and maybe I'm being too naive and optimistic, but I know for sure that Turnbull supports marriage equality (and climate change), and that is a pretty big deal, considering he is the leader of a Conservative party.

    Now $160m sounds like a lot. And it IS a lot compared to average earnings and household budgets and all that.. But we are talking about government spending. The government spent around $140BILLION in the last quarter alone. And about the same in the quarter before that. The previous 2 quarters it was around $150B in each quarter - that's almost $600 billion in a 12 month period. So we are talking about a plebiscite costing about 0.026% of national expenditure. Less than a third of 1/10th of a percent. It's a blip in the ocean. And the criticism of this "grossly expensive" plebiscite is alarmist and exaggerated.

    ETA - to put this another way, if you divide the cost of the plebiscite between every person in Australia (approx 24m people), it is just short of $6.70 per person. Thats not even enough to buy a sandwich. That's how much this plebiscite is costing.
    Last edited by witherwings; 01-07-2016 at 23:56.

  5. #164
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    3) the deficit - I'm getting confused now. A number of people have referred to the deficit doubling under the liberal government, but what I have read is the opposite. I've been looking at the financial statements published by the treasury of Australia. Audited financial statements that show the actual deficit, not the projected (budget) deficit.

    The deficit for each financial year relates to the budget that preceded it - for example, the 2015 financials that were most recently published, are a reflection of the first budget put forth by joe hockey in government. that budget was published in May 2014 and the measures were carried out from July 2014.

    The previous year's financial statements reflect the measures carried out in the previous budget published in May 2013, which was produced by Wayne Swan under labor. So there has technically only been one budget that was carried out by the liberals and reported on: the 2014-15 financial year budget.

    According to treasury, the deficit in 2014-2015 was approximately half of what it was in 2013-2014. Tony Abbott only took office in September 2013, after the Swan/labor budget was already passed.

    Am I missing something?

  6. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    2) spending $160m on a plebiscite. As I've said numerous times, I don't think it's the best scenario to have one, but it's better than nothing, which is what has been done up until now. .
    See, I think a plebiscite *is* worse than nothing. As a queer person, with a female partner and a bub, I'd prefer to have no same sex marriage than a plebiscite about it. I'm really concerned about the bigotry it will unleash and permit - and will require to be publicly funded! A plebiscite will give equal funding to each side.

    I note a point made by a previous poster essentially saying that the advertising couldn't be too offensive because of anti-discrimination legislation, etc - but there are two things to say in response to that. Firstly, one of the big groups - I think it is the Australian Christian Lobby - is asking for anti-discrimination legislation to be suspended for the duration of the campaign so they don't have to worry about it (hopefully this idea won't get any traction). Secondly, there are a lot of things you can say without getting into any trouble at all with anti-discrimination legislation - queer people are well used to the sly insinuations.

    A plebiscite, in my view, will be socially damaging, and just too too damaging to young queer kids and the kids of queer families.

    Here's a good opinion piece about it.
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comm...29-gpuaoh.html

    A quick quote from it: " "The potential of the plebiscite, like the Brexit referendum before it, to empower and legitimise a bigoted minority is also very real.

    In Britain, a wave of racist attacks have followed months of scare campaigns about European workers and refugees coming to the country.

    While some opposing same-sex marriage will make their argument calmly and attempt sensitivity, we know what others will do – demonise homosexuality, and gay parents and families in particular, insinuating harm to children that has been repeatedly proven to be a myth."

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  8. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyV View Post
    This is something I hear a lot. "I'll vote for x because I always vote for x." or even more disturbingly "I'll vote x because my parents always voted x." Why? If you can see major problems with the policies they're campaigning on then why vote for them this time? Party loyalty really confuses me.
    Each election I make my voting decision based on whose policy platform I believe will offer us, as a national and international society, the best future. If that's a different party from one election to the next then that doesn't worry me in the slightest.
    I'll vote for the liberal party as long as their party ideology remains the same. If that starts to change, I might choose to vote for another party. But I don't vote based on policies, because as we all know, policies are not always carried out, either because the politician does a backflip or the policy can't get passed in parliament. I also don't vote based on the leader, as we have seen from both major parties, the leaders can be overthrown. That is why the fundamental values of the party is what gets my vote.

    https://www.liberal.org.au/our-beliefs

    This is why I vote for liberals, because the belief of the "party" (not necessarily the beliefs of the people in the party) is aligned with my own.

  9. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    This is why I vote for liberals, because the belief of the "party" (not necessarily the beliefs of the people in the party) is aligned with my own.
    Yep this is why I always vote ALP/greens. Party ideology.

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  11. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    Firstly, one of the big groups - I think it is the Australian Christian Lobby - is asking for anti-discrimination legislation to be suspended for the duration of the campaign so they don't have to worry about it (hopefully this idea won't get any traction). Secondly, there are a lot of things you can say without getting into any trouble at all with anti-discrimination legislation - queer people are well used to the sly insinuations.

    "
    Whaaaaaat??? 😱😱😱how can they "suspend" anti-discrimination laws. How ridiculous to even ask for this! Will the laws only be suspended for the Australian Christian lobby to help their advertising campaign or will it be a free-for-all across the board? It sounds so unreal, I just can't imagine how this would get approved or even given any serious consideration. God help us if it does!

    As for sly insinuations - how effective could they possibly be in an advertising campaign? Sly insinuations might work for assholes trying to get a rise out of an individual, but it's not going to be enough to sway people's opinions. I genuinely believe that it will be difficult for anti-equality lobby groups to effectively campaign in a plebiscite without breaking the law.

  12. #169
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    Default Election 2016

    @JustJaq I really feel so sad that in 2016 same sex marriage is even still an issue.

    I recall listening to a mother on ABC radio last year crying because she had 3 daughters and 1 son. Her girls could all marry but her son wasn't legally allowed to because he was gay. She said he had been in a committed relationship for years yet one of her girls married a man she'd known for 6 months and that was fine. Yet within 2 years she was divorced.

    It breaks my heart to think that one day in the future this mum could be me. I can't fathom that when my kids are older this won't be legal. But I honestly can't see it ever changing.

    And it just breaks me. Even my 10 year old asks me why girls can't marry girls and boys can't marry boys. It seems so simple to kids yet adults find it impossible.

    I think this is such a basic, fundamental human right, like accessing clean water, an education or health care.

    I'll step off my soap box. Yeah go the economy. What who has the heart?

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  14. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post

    As a labor voter I'm not responsible for that nightmare Mark Latham same as I don't hold every liberal voter responsible for Tony Abbott.
    Only those liberal voters in warringah 😂


 

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