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  1. #91
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    I'm not sure

    As for the Senate, still trying to work out preferences. We dont have a massive amount of options so I have to work out who is less horrible for prefs 11-12

    I am looking forward to my democracy snag! We'll make a morning of it with the kids.
    Last edited by smallpotatoes; 15-11-2016 at 13:07.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallpotatoes View Post
    Well, the balance was held by Fielding and Xenophon in their first term. The second they would have had to negotiate in the HoR as it was a minority Government to get it passed. I don't think it was as easy as you suggest it was, particularly since it's a conscious vote within the Labor party. I also think it's unfair to say that because a party didn't pass legislation in the past, doesn't mean it ever will. Party platforms are always changing. Can I then say that because the Coalition hasn't recognised same-sex marriage, they they never will?

    I believe Shorten when he says he will introduce a Bill in his first 100 days. He can't guarantee it will pass because from memory Labor still have marriage equality as a conscious vote until 2019 when it becomes binding but I'll need to check that.
    This is exactly my point though. People think that if they vote for labor, based on shorten's statement, we will have marriage equality in Australia within 100 days. It's misleading and incorrect. I'm not saying a plebiscite is the answer but I don't believe that the legislation will necessarily pass under labor any more than it would under liberal.

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    No but I think its a much better step than doing nothing or spending money on something that is divisive and not even binding.

  4. #94
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    rainbow road is offline look at the stars, look how they shine for you
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    The last plebiscite in Australia took 7 years to implement. Either way I'm sure they'll stretch it as long as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    I agree that Malcolm Turnbull has been disappointing, purely for the fact that he hasn't even tried aligning the party's policies with his own beliefs on marriage equality and climate change. As he said right after he overthrew Abbott, he's going to "toe the party line". What I'm hoping for is an LNP win which will give his position as PM enough validity to be able to convince the other members in his party that some of the governments policies on social issues need to change.

    From an ideological perspective, I believe in deregulation, small government and economic prosperity through enterprise success. So naturally, I would always vote liberals, although I don't always agree with their policies or necessarily like their leaders. I did love John Howard though. Those were the days!

    I voted yesterday and glad to get it over with. Not particularly fond of sausage sizzles and my Saturday is going to be hectic enough.
    This about sums up my views. I usually vote liberal because I think they do a better job at looking after the economy. The party has a massive room for improvement though, massive.

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  7. #96
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    Off to vote now - our pre polling closes at 6pm so decided I would get it out of the way. One more night is not going to make one candidate look better all of a sudden!

  8. #97
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    Default Election 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    What kind of advertising are you expecting to see exactly? The last time I checked, Australia had stringent anti discrimination laws in place (see human rights website: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/emplo...imination-laws) and I believe that translates to anti-LGBT advertising being illegal. If there are anti-marriage equality ads on TV they will have to be so vague as to warrant them completely pointless.

    And I don't actually think an advertisement will change someone's sentiments on marriage equality. People are either for it or against it already.

    Why is a plebiscite an unnecessary waste of funds but a referendum isn't? Everyone was in favour of a referendum, the outcome of which would not actually be able to change legislation because there is nothing in the constitution that says marriage is between a man and a woman.

    A plebiscite will at least allow the government and opposition to determine what the true feelings are of the Australian majority on this issue. If there is a majority in favour of marriage equality, then many anti-equality ministers have already pledged to vote with the plebiscite result. Including ultra conservative Toby Abbott.

    I'm not saying it's a perfect way to achieve an outcome but don't be fooled by the labor party's rhetoric. They don't have a policy for making an actual change. If they did, why is there still no marriage equality since 2007? They managed to pass a lot of other legislation that the liberals voted against in the senate - carbon tax, mining tax, Nbn, the school halls.. Come on.
    The Plebiscite is a load of horse****. How the Government can spend $150million plus of a non binding vote when schools are underfunded, we have homeless on our streets, women can't afford to work full time as the child care rebate cap hasn't increased in years, domestic violence organisations are struggling for funds, people are committing suicide as they can't get appropriate mental health care is bloody well disgraceful and beyond me. Just shows that the lib's were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and have no idea about the struggles of the common folk.

    They should do their darn jobs and pass the darn legislation in parliament at minimal cost to the public.
    Last edited by VicPark; 01-07-2016 at 19:08.

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  10. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    The Plebiscite is a load of horse****. How the Government can spend $150million plus of a non binding vote when schools are underfunded, we have homeless on our streets, women can't afford to work full time as the child care rebate cap hasn't increased in years, domestic violence organisations are struggling for funds, people are committing suicide as they can't get appropriate mental health care is bloody well disgraceful and beyond me. Just shows that the lib's were both with a silver spoon in their mouth and have no idea about the struggles of the common folk.

    They should do their darn jobs and pass the darn legislation in parliament at minimal cost to the public.
    I couldn't agree more with everything you said here

  11. #99
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    2 things


    1 - The Plebiscite.
    It cannot be a referendum, if they are going to ask the people for their opinion on whether or not they want changes to the marraige act - it will be a plebiscite. A referendum is a vote to change the constitution. As the Marraige Act is an act of Parliament, not part of the constitution, we cannot have a referendum.

    Parliament is our law making body. We elect members to Parliament and they choose to enact laws as they see fit. We do not actually have a mechanism (besides a general election) to require Members to enact specific legislation.

    Therefore a plebiscite is non-binding. However, you would think that if we have a national vote, the lawmakers would consider themselves mandated to follow the outcome.

    Personally, I dont think there should be a plebiscite. They should just do the right thing and enact the legislation. There JOB.

    anyway....

    2 - the Deficit.
    Delirium is perfectly correct when she said that the deficit is significantly higher under Liberals than it was under Labor. Witherwings is also correct that when the Libs left power we had a large surplus, and Kevin Rudd spent a bunch of it in his first term.

    However - it didnt really matter who was in government at that time - whoever it was would have spent the money, and put us into deficit. The spending is what kept us out of the global recession that everyone else had. (well that and the mining boom).

    Spending the money was responsible government and Labor did the right thing by spending it (even though I disagreed with what they spent it on - but that is another matter).

    The major spend, together with the recession and global economic difficulties since have meant a shrinking tax take .... so the government (whoever has been in power) has committed to various spending ahead of time, but receives less and less income in tax revenues ... so the deficit grows.

    Yes that means that it will grow more in later governments ... because there is interest on that deficit. They have not reigned in spending (either party) to the same extent that the tax revenue has shrunk.

    This isnt party politics - its macro economics.

    The worry is that the Liberal government has promised a tax cut to companies ... in the time when we really desperately need MORE government funds, not less. Our education and health sectors are crumbling, welfare and services also spiraling out of control ... and the government wants to cut spending even more and give a tax cut.

    Its a bit odd.

    (Having said that - I will still vote Liberal, as I always have )

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    Just went through the senate parties in QLD. Struggled to find 6 I was happy with. But I got there in the end!


 

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