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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    I suggest you research communication; the verbal yes only makes up less than 10% of the communication; the saying actions speak louder than words is very much true. From a far in this situation the men thought the women were about to put on a show, being a little tipsy themselves they went in for a closer look.
    I'm well aware of how we communicate, but I still stand by my comment.

    I probably dress like your grandma and I still have some men think it's acceptable to make vulgar remarks. The notion that wearing a mini skirt means a victim has some accountability is a **** weak excuse many make to remove themselves from the situation; to bring a false sense of security that it would never happen to them.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    Sorry I should have been more clearer. I wasn't it a comparison to your situation it was a comparison to society siding with the victim. There have been numerous cases where a girl has dressed provocatively, flirted all night with verbal and non verbal communication, accepted drinks etc then willingly goes into a bathroom with a football player ( as an example), states yes at the time but then regrets her actions later and plays the victim. The media is to afraid to call it as it is in the fear they will be called victim blamers
    Well like it or not there is a difference between flirting and wanting to fool around and consenting to sex. Saying she asked for it IS victim blaming. Perhaps you should read into sexual assault and issues of consent a little more. It's something all teens should be taught too. Someone (forget who sorry) shared an article not long ago that i thought touched it nicely.
    ETA It was Olive Oil who shared the article http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3764489.html
    Last edited by Yoghurt; 11-06-2016 at 12:22.

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  5. #43
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    Oh and if our society was so evolved to know 100% right from wrong we wouldn't need rules, police, judges, parole officers, prisons.....

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    Oh and if our society was so evolved to know 100% right from wrong we wouldn't need rules, police, judges, parole officers, prisons.....
    This is true and even then we could argue til the cows come home about law vs morality in any case. I think what the pp was meaning is that as humans we are aware that our actions can cause harm and we are responsible for those actions and the harm they cause. Regardless of the rule of law.

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    Oh and if our society was so evolved to know 100% right from wrong we wouldn't need rules, police, judges, parole officers, prisons.....
    Erm no. People do know right from wrong. Many just choose to do the wrong thing.

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoghurt View Post
    This is true and even then we could argue til the cows come home about law vs morality in any case. I think what the pp was meaning is that as humans we are aware that our actions can cause harm and we are responsible for those actions and the harm they cause. Regardless of the rule of law.
    I wanted to add to this that what a woman wears, or her behaviour does not cause harm to herself or others. Maybe a bit of sunburn lol.
    S1ut shaming, assault, victim blaming etc all do cause harm to the woman, and society as a whole for perpetuating harmful ideas of who is responsible for what.

    In this case nothing happened and i dont see the big deal but even then, the men were still responsible for running over and just assuming that the women were seeking their attention in the first place rather than enjoying themselves in their own right. The only reason such an assumption can be made (that the women's behaviour was somehow for their benefit) stems from these ****ed up ideas in the first place.

    Overall though, in this case, no harm done. Probably just caused those guys to strike out later if other women saw their reaction/behaviour lol

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  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    So you're attacking me because I agree with your partner in this debate. You asked for opinions and I agree with your partner. If you're acting provocatively in a public place it's possible that it will attract the attention of others even if that's not your intention. The men in this case were just excited as that sort of behaviour by two tipsy girls in previous experience HAS continued to be a performance.

    Just because we're female doesn't give us the right to do what we want when we want.
    We need to take responsibility for what we do and how that impacts others.

    So my responsibility and how it impacts others based on this post topic: I knew you would be put back because of my comments as I'm not agreeing with you, I'm agreeing with your partner ( who you've already expressed you disagree with).

    society is so PC now it's telling women they can dress in a mini skirt and walk down dark alleys or go into the male bathrooms with a whole football team with confidence. Society and the media are to scared of being called victim blamers ( like I have been) but come on you don't go into a male toilet in a nightclub with a whole football team to have a cup of tea. If you don't put yourself in those situations then the impression and opportunity can't arise.

    Verbal language is only a small way in which humans communicate ( studies have suggested less than 10%)
    You keep talking about 'our responsibility'. Where are men's? How about these dudes had some control and class and didn't jeer? How about the OP's partner recognise she is a monogamous, loving partner and maybe these feelings reflect insecurity and possibly possessiveness? I don't really see you anywhere talking about men's role in any of this. Which reflects to the women reading, that in fact it isn't about humans taking responsibility as you first said, but of women solely having to take measures.

    Men everywhere get drunk. Imagine this scenario - a heterosexual dude goes out with his friends to the pub and gets tanked. As you do at 24 right? It's summer and he's wearing skinny jeans and a T. There are no cabs at closing time so he decides to walk the 4 blocks to home. On that journey he is assaulted and raped by a man (clearly I'm not saying gay men are rapists, but I'm wanting the perp and victim to be male for this example). The rapist says he loves tight skinny jeans on a man and that set him off.

    What would be the community response? I strongly argue he would never be blamed. The fact his jeans were tight would never be mentioned. Nor that it was 4am and he was on his own. There would be lots of vigilante behaviour against homosexuals. And I dare say that much like with the King Hit laws, new laws would be made within weeks. Because this poor guy had been assaulted and violated.

    I also want to add the whole mini skirt/how she dresses thing is a red herring anyway. Women are raped, leered and catcalled at who wear cardians, burquas, who are 80, who wear pants.

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  15. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I also want to add the whole mini skirt/how she dresses thing is a red herring anyway. Women are raped, leered and catcalled at who wear cardians, burquas, who are 80, who wear pants.
    And by @atomicmama

    "I probably dress like your grandma and I still have some men think it's acceptable to make vulgar remarks. The notion that wearing a mini skirt means a victim has some accountability is a **** weak excuse many make to remove themselves from the situation; to bring a false sense of security that it would never happen to them."

    Sorry not good at multi quotes.

    Yes. Absolutely.
    This attitude implies that assault is about not being able to control oneself around s1utty, conventionally attractive women who are trying to tease men like dangling meat out of reach of a lion.
    Disgusting.
    Assault is about control and power and ANYONE can be the target of that. Young, old, differently abled, regardless of appearance, clothing or behaviour.
    This is why i feel you have a poor understanding of sexual assault but perhaps i should have elaborated on that earlier.
    Last edited by Yoghurt; 11-06-2016 at 12:55.

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElastiGirl View Post
    And lastly, we were not acting provocatively, and my partner wouldn't have thought anything about had these men not paid it any attention
    Maybe he just remembers the night as a close call, if those men had been aggressive or something got out of hand he was your defence and maybe that's been bugging him, not all consuming but just there, unresolved?

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    Default My partner and I are debating. Need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    Maybe he just remembers the night as a close call, if those men had been aggressive or something got out of hand he was your defence and maybe that's been bugging him, not all consuming but just there, unresolved?
    No not at all. His focus was just purely on the type of attention I got, and how he thought I was responsible for it. Basically he just got jealous and couldn't admit that and need to blame me. And that is what we were discussing before I posted in here, he wanted others peoples view on it.
    Last edited by ThreePeasPlease; 11-06-2016 at 12:57.

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