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  1. #21
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    Default E2 Priming

    Hi Lily,

    My FSH was 450units which I understand is the highest. For me also higher dosage didn't produce any extra eggs.

    I haven't heard that stopping DHEA suddenly is detrimental. I had seen many Fertility Specialist and only 1 told me to stop DHEA during stims. I ignored this until the last 2 treatments, after I found out that DHEA contains testosterone which can damage egg quality during stims.

    The last 2 cycles produced the best results by far, in terms of quantity and quality of embryos. So not sure if E2 priming or stopping DHEA was the cause for the quality, but maybe a combination of both. I'm convinced that E2 priming was the key to the quantity though.
    After 10+ cycles hoping to see at least 3 follicles on the scan, and sometimes only finding 2, I literally burst into tears when I saw 7-9 after starting on E2. I had never seen that many big black balloons on my scan before!

    Yes E2 only for 7 days from day 21 to start of period.

    Not sure what your FS means about lining? My lining was always good, but from what I read, E2 priming tricks the body into suppressing early release of FSH without down regulating. The problem with down regulating low responders is that it switches off the normal production of hormones which can then be sluggish to restart. Early production of FSH during luteal stage is what E2 seeks to prevent so that a dominate follicle is not 'preselected' prior to stim injections.

    I can only speak from experience, but I would recommend you try E2 if you can and stop DHEA from day 1 to day 15. If you have naturally high FSH at Day 1 then E2 will help reduce this and hopefully give you more and better quality eggs.

    I would be interested in hearing how it goes.

    Good luck

  2. #22
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    @Nello thank you so much for taking the time to answer so fast and providing so many details!!

    It all makes sense, and I'm really gonna push for it!

    I'll update you, that's the least I can do X

  3. #23
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    Hi @Nello - just coming back from FS appointment and it has been a hard battle but I won it!
    She doesn't believe in E2 priming and never does it so not familiar at all with it. She thinks it's for helping for the lining only so I made her read your message since it is well explained. Eventually she accepted to prescribe it just to mentally make me feel better. Which is fine, I don't care.

    Only thing is: coz she's not familiar with it she freaked out about mixing different hormones and said to completely stop Dhea when I start E2, which is today btw.
    I never heard of ppl stopping dhea b4 stim, E2 priming or not. What do u reckon? Could it be bad interactions btwn the 2?

    Also I might do E2 priming for like 5 days only as my AF is due in 5 days but I thought better that than nothing right?

    Really hope it's gonna make a difference....

  4. #24
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    Perhaps refer your FS to this research paper:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22160464

    I also had a little trouble with my FS asking for E2. Mustn't be prescribed or known much in AUS. I went in armed with the research and she just said Ok, probably just to appease me too.

    I started on day 21 and went for 7 days. Not sure if 5 days is the same, but can only try.

    I really don't think stopping the DHEA in luteal will be any issue. I was taking DHEA for 3 years, and I don't think it helped much anyway. If it does help, your recruits will have got the benefit for the last 2 months anyway.

    Do you have a Day 1 blood test b4 you start stims? If you do, it would be useful to compare your day 1 FSH level next cycle with previous cycles. If it's low you'll know the E2 did the job. My FSH went from >10 each cycle (which is very bad) to almost 1.

    Good Luck! My thoughts are with you.

  5. #25
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    Thanks so much @Nello! Yes, I do have a Day1 BT. Last cycle FSH was 10 (is it bad??) so I'll ask the nurses for the results again and will compare

    About DHEA my question was more about what is the harm in keeping taking it for 5 more days until stim?
    But I guess 5 more days on it or not won't make a big difference anyway so I might just let go on that one! Lol

    Thx again for your support. X

  6. #26
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    I found this page on FSH levels:
    http://www.advancedfertility.com/day3fsh.htm

    Under 9 is normal, 9-11 is fair, >11 not very good.

  7. #27
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    Thanks @Nello!!

  8. #28
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    Hi @Nello, thought I would update since you've been so kind and provided so much info...

    So I started to do E2 priming as planned, unfortunately AF showed up 4 days early! So I only primed for 2 days, however I kept taking the Progynova till trigger.(a friend of mine is a nurse and guided me during the process based on my BT results).
    It definitely helped with balancing my numbers, and I had the best results so far:
    10 eggs collected, 6 matures.

    Unfortunately and surprisingly, only one fertilized.

    Huge slap in my face since fert rate never has been a problem for us. (we're doing ICSI). Now we're pushing it till Day5 and see if it survives, mind you I'm bracing myself for a no-transfer, which is heart breaking after a a 5th fresh cycle.

    I am not blaming the Progynova though. I am just wondering what's the heck happened.
    I'm wondering if the Dhea could have affected the eggs quality? I took it for 2 months before the cycle and stopped it when I started the E2 priming. But still, it was and still is in my system... Could the Dhea actually harm a cycle if it's not right for the person? How to know??

    God this is such a guessing game...

    In any case, I guess my conclusion is: even though this cycle ended up being a disaster, it started off really well and gave me my best eggs recruitment so far, and it's 100% thanks to the E2 priming. So I'm def planning on doing it again next cycle, hoping that AF won't be early and that I'll have the opportunity to prime properly.

    Hope that'll help anyone reading

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillyM View Post
    Hi @Nello, thought I would update since you've been so kind and provided so much info...

    So I started to do E2 priming as planned, unfortunately AF showed up 4 days early! So I only primed for 2 days, however I kept taking the Progynova till trigger.(a friend of mine is a nurse and guided me during the process based on my BT results).
    It definitely helped with balancing my numbers, and I had the best results so far:
    10 eggs collected, 6 matures.

    Unfortunately and surprisingly, only one fertilized.

    Huge slap in my face since fert rate never has been a problem for us. (we're doing ICSI). Now we're pushing it till Day5 and see if it survives, mind you I'm bracing myself for a no-transfer, which is heart breaking after a a 5th fresh cycle.

    I am not blaming the Progynova though. I am just wondering what's the heck happened.
    I'm wondering if the Dhea could have affected the eggs quality? I took it for 2 months before the cycle and stopped it when I started the E2 priming. But still, it was and still is in my system... Could the Dhea actually harm a cycle if it's not right for the person? How to know??

    God this is such a guessing game...

    In any case, I guess my conclusion is: even though this cycle ended up being a disaster, it started off really well and gave me my best eggs recruitment so far, and it's 100% thanks to the E2 priming. So I'm def planning on doing it again next cycle, hoping that AF won't be early and that I'll have the opportunity to prime properly.

    Hope that'll help anyone reading
    @LillyM Sorry to hear thus. I wondered the same thing about DHEA on my last cycle... I had only been on it for 3 weeks before starting syneral and then stims. I had a bad cycle with delays and nothing transferred and the only med different from prior cycles was the DHEA. But everyone at the clinic said it wouldn't harm, I just wouldn't have had the full benefit. I am still not convinced. This cycle I took the DHEA for a couple of months and the cycle was better. But I also tried new supplements or maybe it was just a better month for me...

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to skeeter For This Useful Post:

    LillyM  (21-08-2016)

  11. #30
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    Hi Skeeter,

    I'm so sorry only 1 fertilised out of 10. Its so hard to predict with so many factors in play.
    Like you, I never had any fertilisation problem, until a quack FS prescribed me testosterone during stims. The testosterone ruined fertilisation of any eggs collected for all cycles up to 3 months after I stopped testosterone (total of 5 cycles ruined). DHEA contains a tiny amount of testosterone, but I haven't heard of it effecting egg quality if stopped when stims start. ?

    The other factor which effected fertilisation rates for me was the length of stims. One of the clinics I used only collect eggs on Tues and Thurs. My follicles were at optimal size on Sat, but had to push on to Tues. That cycle gave me a 20% fertilisation rate instead of the normal 80% I usually had.
    I found that the leading follicle was always the best quality, so best to trigger when it is ready rather than wait on the smaller follicles to grow, and then lose the leading one.

    I haven't heard of continuing the E2 during stims, but I trust your professional carers know best.

    The positive though is that you did get 10 eggs!! At least you know that they are there, and can be stimulated to grow. That's half the battle.

    Are you taking Q10 supps? Again its hard to know, but I feel that they may have helped me.

    Good luck with the little one. Hopefully it can make it to day 5. My thoughts are with you and everyone else going through this crazy process. Stay strong.

    Regards,
    Nello


 

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