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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    According to Tizzie, that's your baby manipulating you and you shouldn't buy in to it ������
    I call it survival instinct.

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  3. #22
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    Default Controlled Crying study

    I have done sleep training with both my kids. It worked well for DD but DS's sleep is constantly getting messed up due to illness so we haven't had much opportunity to be consistent for long periods of time. If he's unwell I won't let him cry, he gets too worked up and it triggers his coughing & breathing problems. If he's not well he gets all the cuddles he wants/needs but unfortunately that means that when he's well he expects the same treatment!

    So while I did do what some people would consider CC (I don't consider it that, but whatever), I didn't do it when they were little babies and never when unwell or had a completely reasonable reason for being unsettled (like teething, disrupted routine, new surroundings). I've never thought I was damaging my kids as I think I have been reasonable and caring in my approach. They know I'm there for them, but bedtime is bedtime and I'm not going to put up with them running riot until 9pm, refusing to nap when they really need it, or waking for hours in the middle of the night.

    The article doesn't have any impact on me at all, I don't feel the need to justify my decisions and I don't need validation.

    ETA: to be clear, I have never done CIO. I always go in periodically as needed to reassure and settle, and will sit in the room if needed.
    Last edited by Cue; 24-05-2016 at 18:01.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankenmum View Post
    I couldn't do CIO, it's just in my nature to comfort my baby/child when it's crying. Hell, I even feel the need to comfort another adult when they're crying!

    But I did leave DS to have a bit of a grizzle cry (I beleive its called a protest cry) for a couple of minutes as a bub. The type of cry that you know there's nothing wrong, they just want cuddles. But if I tried to cuddle DS to sleep he would get SO ridiculously over stimulated that he just wouldn't sleep! So letting him have a little grizzle was the only option, and 99.9% of the time he'd be asleep within minutes.

    We were very lucky that he was such a good sleeper.

    I don't judge those that try CIO or CC as I haven't walked in their shoes. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture. It's used to psychologically break people! So you gotta do what you gotta do in order to get some sleep (so long as bub is safe, fed & dry).

    I do admit that I sometimes question parents (internally, I'd never say it to them) who complain that their baby wakes every 30 mins to 1 hour overnight, they're not coping, they're not getting any sleep, they're a mental and physical wreck, yet they refuse to do anything to help their baby's sleeping, and insist on continuing to try to feed and cuddle to sleep, even though that's not working...then 3 years later are still complaining that their child won't sleep and is still co-sleeping 😨😨 I can't help but be a little exasperated by that! If you're not coping and what you're doing isn't working, why not try something else? Of course if you're happy with the status quo, then that's all good.
    Ok as a parent who has had a 'good' sleeper (DS1) and a 'bad' sleeper (DS2) there is a fair bit about this comment I find objectionable.

    DS2 woke every 45 minutes to 1 hour until over 18 months, he continued to wake every 2-3 hours until almost 3 and now at 3.5 years wakes 2-3 times a night still. As a newborn/infant/toddler as long as he was held or in physical contact with you he was ok. Left alone he went from calm to gagging, choking and vomiting hysterical in under 30 seconds. I tried EVERYTHING BUT leaving him to scream to help him sleep better - I'm sorry that if I had a whinge about that fact it would have exasperated you!!!

    As for the OP no nothing in the article or research would have changed my mind with respect to DS2 - there is nothing that could convince me that leaving a hysterical vomiting infant would not cause damage. I didn't need anything with DS1 as he slept 6-8 hour blocks from 8 weeks old (whilst feeding on demand and bed sharing).

    Does it change my attitude to CC use by others? No I don't like CC, I don't like that others use it BUT if it is what they chose to do then so be it, it's their family not mine.

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    Nope it's makes no difference to me. Pelt me with stones but one study doesn't prove a trend. You can find a study to prove anything. My mother's instinct said from my first child I couldn't allow my babies to cry. It didn't feel right, deep in my gut. Before I knew what AP or CCing was. For me it depends on specifics of CCing and how it's done as to whether it's damaging or not. Letting them have a grizzle, going in patting and shhhing, walking out, then repeating at larger intervals without having the baby distraught. No I really don't believe that's damaging in any sense. But letting the baby scream like Tizzy advocates (and yeah she does, she just uses euphamisms) - yes I believe that's damaging and no one study will shift that opinion.

    And I should add my 3rd child who is a year old is a SHOCKING sleeper. He slept through the night from 9-12 weeks and hasn't slept through since. He wakes up to 10-15 times a night. I'm chronically sleep deprived so I get how it feels.

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by binnielici View Post
    Ok as a parent who has had a 'good' sleeper (DS1) and a 'bad' sleeper (DS2) there is a fair bit about this comment I find objectionable.

    DS2 woke every 45 minutes to 1 hour until over 18 months, he continued to wake every 2-3 hours until almost 3 and now at 3.5 years wakes 2-3 times a night still. As a newborn/infant/toddler as long as he was held or in physical contact with you he was ok. Left alone he went from calm to gagging, choking and vomiting hysterical in under 30 seconds. I tried EVERYTHING BUT leaving him to scream to help him sleep better - I'm sorry that if I had a whinge about that fact it would have exasperated you!!!
    My comment was that if it wasn't working and the parent refused to try anything else, then I find that exasperating. In your case, you tried other things and they didn't work. So my comment doesn't actually apply to you.

    ETA - basically the premise of my original comment is that I find it exasperating when people continually complain about an issue, but don't try anything to help the situation (obviously there are exception to this, eg. Where MI issues are involved, etc).
    Last edited by Frankenmum; 24-05-2016 at 18:34.

  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by binnielici View Post

    DS2 woke every 45 minutes to 1 hour until over 18 months, he continued to wake every 2-3 hours until almost 3 and now at 3.5 years wakes 2-3 times a night still. As a newborn/infant/toddler as long as he was held or in physical contact with you he was ok. Left alone he went from calm to gagging, choking and vomiting hysterical in under 30 seconds. I tried EVERYTHING BUT leaving him to scream to help him sleep better...

    .
    This was my son exactly although he generally sleeps through now. But until he dropped his day sleep this was him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankenmum View Post

    ETA - basically the premise of my original comment is that I find it exasperating when people continually complain about an issue, but don't try anything to help the situation.
    I get that it probably is frustrating for others. It's so tricky though if CC/CIO isn't for you, or it doesn't work, then that limits the amount of 'active things' you *can* actually do. The decision to 'do nothing' is actually a decision in itself, if that makes sense?

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  12. #27
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    I tried it a bit with DS but I found it really distressing. As someone who researches the crap out of everything one study means bugger all to me. One day a study proves this and a month later a study proves something else.
    DS was a bad sleeper and I ended up putting the cot next to my bed and dealing with it for 3 years.
    CC made me really anxious and it didn't feel right to me. But I guess each to their own
    Last edited by Janesmum123; 24-05-2016 at 18:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I get that it probably is frustrating for others. It's so tricky though if CC/CIO isn't for you, or it doesn't work, then that limits the amount of 'active things' you *can* actually do. The decision to 'do nothing' is actually a decision in itself, if that makes sense?
    Exactly. After you've tried to feed to sleep, dummies etc and only CIO/CCing is left for many that simply isn't a choice. So what may seem like someone to be doing nothing, is in fact someone who just doesn't agree with 'doing something' i.e. sleep training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I get that it probably is frustrating for others. It's so tricky though if CC/CIO isn't for you, or it doesn't work, then that limits the amount of 'active things' you *can* actually do. The decision to 'do nothing' is actually a decision in itself, if that makes sense?
    Yeah, I totally get that. That's why I don't say anything to those parents, I know they're struggling, and they're doing what they believe to be best, so I just offer my support. I just get silently exasperated and wish that they could find something that would make them all happy.

    My comments today are probably also coloured by the fact that I spent 10 hours today listening to my mother complain ceaselessly about her shizzy relationship...the exact same complaints that she's been making for the last 6 years without doing anything about it! So my empathy levels are especially low today 😅 Anyways, totally OT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    According to Tizzie, that's your baby manipulating you and you shouldn't buy in to it 😔
    tizzie hall is a frucking idiot.

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