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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylie764 View Post
    For those that have discarded embryos after completing their family... Do u know that the wait list for donor embryos in Oz is up to 5 years.
    Re: donor embryo's - I always thought I'd have no issue donating any unused embryo's, but that changed once I had DS. I'm not sure I could handle having a child out there that I didn't know about. Even knowing donation was no guarantee of a child.

    I don't know much about adoption; can people state a preference for sex? If so, I wonder if that could be applied to embryo's if they adoptive parents wanted it.

  2. #312
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    I keep reading people's opposition due to possibly creating an imbalance in sex in the general population. Is that actually an issue? As in, I get that it means people are less likely to find a partner and naturally reproduce, but isn't that a good thing, given how supposedly unsustainable our growing population is? (Genuine question).

    Also, I don't know about anyone else, but it is bugging the heck out of me that it's being referred to as gender selection. We're choosing the sex, not the gender.

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    I keep reading people's opposition due to possibly creating an imbalance in sex in the general population. Is that actually an issue? As in, I get that it means people are less likely to find a partner and naturally reproduce, but isn't that a good thing, given how supposedly unsustainable our growing population is? (Genuine question).

    Also, I don't know about anyone else, but it is bugging the heck out of me that it's being referred to as gender selection. We're choosing the sex, not the gender.
    As to your first point, it created an imbalance in China for a few years which has caused problems but has had unintended benefits. It's worth reading into the China situation. People often quote the one child policy without understanding it. It's also no longer the policy in China.

    As to the second. I used sex selection at the beginning bit everyone else kept using gender so I gave up. I guess it stems from the term gender disappointment so naturally it becomes gender selection.

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  5. #314
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    Using China as an example is really a flawed premise - for starters there were immense cultural imperatives to have a boy. Secondly China's population is/ was massive. And thirdly, as PPs have alluded to, the policy allowed for only one child, and in the case of sex selection many people already have a few children of one sex and want one of another.

    Reading this thread is a real kick in the teeth. It's been implicated that me and people like me who would do sex selection are vile, greedy, selfish, bigoted and have severe mental illnesses - or maybe we're just insensitive and horrible and are pretending to have a mental illness. If our child doesn't fit gender stereotypes we will probably reject them. If we can afford to do PGD then we're elitist and if we can't we're greedy because there is no way Medicare should contribute. If we don't use all our embryos we're selfish too.
    I'm using some hyperbole and superlatives but you don't have to read too far between the lines to see how hurtful some of the things that have been said could be to people who have acknowledged they would consider using this technology. I don't usually wade into threads like this because I don't have the time to give properly considered answers, but I thought that I could contribute in this instance as this is something my husband and I have spent time discussing in the abstract. Some people have really tried to understand but others have come in with straw man arguments and worst case scenarios and used those to tar everyone with the same brush. Yes the thread asked for opinions but when some of us have laid out our emotions and vulnerabilities and still effectively been name-called... Well that sucks.

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  7. #315
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    I agree China isn't a great example for many reasons but the reality is people asked about the effects of an imbalance and it's all we have to go off

    And I don't think there would be an imbalance anyway. I still think the number of people accessing it in Australia would be very small.

    I'm sorry @BettyW you feel attacked. People always express views in these threads that are bound to upset someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyW View Post
    Using China as an example is really a flawed premise - for starters there were immense cultural imperatives to have a boy. Secondly China's population is/ was massive. And thirdly, as PPs have alluded to, the policy allowed for only one child, and in the case of sex selection many people already have a few children of one sex and want one of another.

    Reading this thread is a real kick in the teeth. It's been implicated that me and people like me who would do sex selection are vile, greedy, selfish, bigoted and have severe mental illnesses - or maybe we're just insensitive and horrible and are pretending to have a mental illness. If our child doesn't fit gender stereotypes we will probably reject them. If we can afford to do PGD then we're elitist and if we can't we're greedy because there is no way Medicare should contribute. If we don't use all our embryos we're selfish too.
    I'm using some hyperbole and superlatives but you don't have to read too far between the lines to see how hurtful some of the things that have been said could be to people who have acknowledged they would consider using this technology. I don't usually wade into threads like this because I don't have the time to give properly considered answers, but I thought that I could contribute in this instance as this is something my husband and I have spent time discussing in the abstract. Some people have really tried to understand but others have come in with straw man arguments and worst case scenarios and used those to tar everyone with the same brush. Yes the thread asked for opinions but when some of us have laid out our emotions and vulnerabilities and still effectively been name-called... Well that sucks.
    I'm hearing you Betty and you've summarized all the reasons why women who wish to access sex selection do so in complete secrecy. People don't get it, a lot of the time they dont try to get it, and there reactions can be hurtful. Some people have such extreme viewpoints, it surprises me seeing how liberal or society is with so many other issues. I just think it's an issue that will take awhile to become main******.

    There is a lovely lady at my school who has 3 boys. You wouldn't believe the amount of rediculous comments she gets daily. She doesn't have GD but she does really want a daughter. I have witnessed some of the comments. One mum said to her (in front of me) "omg I would DIE if I had 3 boys". Comments like that come thick and fast from the general public - society is actually a big contributor to those suffering with GD.

    So when people ask her "are you going to try for another to get a girl?" she says "yep, but we want 100% certainty so we are going to america to do sex selective IVF" and you should see (once again I've witnessed this) the horror in people's faces when she is honest. It's almost comical!!! She has three boys, she wants a girl, she doesnt want to leave it "to nature" - why is this so horrifying to people? And yet these same people can say how horrified they'd be if they had 3 boys. Don't ask the question if you're not ready for the answer.

    Just know Betty that there is a growing number of women who understand you and know you aren't some horrible monster with serious issues lol

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  10. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    I'm hearing you Betty and you've summarized all the reasons why women who wish to access sex selection do so in complete secrecy. People don't get it, a lot of the time they dont try to get it, and there reactions can be hurtful. Some people have such extreme viewpoints, it surprises me seeing how liberal or society is with so many other issues. I just think it's an issue that will take awhile to become main******.
    Even if it does become main****** it will still garner comments. Chrissy Teagan and John legend did sex selection for their baby and she talked about it openly. They are in America and its legal. The comments and criticism she got was extraordinary. It seems even when it's legal it's still unpalatable to many.

    As for comments yes I agree it's completely off when people say such crap but I get it too with 3 girls. But I'm one of the "lucky" ones who got a boy.

    I've just learned that people in the main are idiots when it comes to stuff like this.

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  12. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Even if it does become main****** it will still garner comments. Chrissy Teagan and John legend did sex selection for their baby and she talked about it openly. They are in America and its legal. The comments and criticism she got was extraordinary. It seems even when it's legal it's still unpalatable to many.

    As for comments yes I agree it's completely off when people say such crap but I get it too with 3 girls. But I'm one of the "lucky" ones who got a boy.

    I've just learned that people in the main are idiots when it comes to stuff like this.
    Hahaha yes I agree there are too many idiots free to roam the world and make insensitive comments.

    I know what you mean re: Chrissy Teagan. When I was reading about it she said that they had had issues conceiving, did IVF and the doctor asked her "you've got X amount of healthy embryos, some male and some female, do you have a preference for what I put back?" and like most people she did have a slight preference, her preference happened to be for a girl and so she said "yeah sure, pop the female embie in" and that was that. I still don't really see what's so wrong with that? But obviously I'm the minority on that one!!! If she'd stood up and publicly said "I had an abortion because I didn't want to have a baby" she would have got far less backlash. Which to me is weird (and I'm pro-choice fwiw) - anger over creating a loved baby, no anger about aborting one that is already well on it's way to exisitng. I know they are two separate issues but I just find the mentality strange.

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  14. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    Hahaha yes I agree there are too many idiots free to roam the world and make insensitive comments.

    I know what you mean re: Chrissy Teagan. When I was reading about it she said that they had had issues conceiving, did IVF and the doctor asked her "you've got X amount of healthy embryos, some male and some female, do you have a preference for what I put back?" and like most people she did have a slight preference, her preference happened to be for a girl and so she said "yeah sure, pop the female embie in" and that was that. I still don't really see what's so wrong with that? But obviously I'm the minority on that one!!! If she'd stood up and publicly said "I had an abortion because I didn't want to have a baby" she would have got far less backlash. Which to me is weird (and I'm pro-choice fwiw) - anger over creating a loved baby, no anger about aborting one that is already well on it's way to exisitng. I know they are two separate issues but I just find the mentality strange.
    I've been thinking more about the aversion to sex selection when we accept so many other things.

    My thoughts are that this is another example of how as mothers we are expected to be completely selfless in every respect, and we are not true mothers unless we accept everything that nature intended for us. Want to work? Selfish! Want to stay home? Lazy and on welfare! Bottle feed? Selfish and lazy! Breast feed beyond the socially accepted cut off point? Freak! Etc etc.

    Once we decide to become q mother we open our lives to inspection by others, the media, society etc. As soon as we do something that's even vaguely out of kilter with what's deemed ok but the norm at that time, we get criticised.

    Men go largely unscathed in all of this. They are just as much a part of this decision but are not even mentioned.

    Anyway that's just my thoughts.

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  16. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I've been thinking more about the aversion to sex selection when we accept so many other things.

    My thoughts are that this is another example of how as mothers we are expected to be completely selfless in every respect, and we are not true mothers unless we accept everything that nature intended for us. Want to work? Selfish! Want to stay home? Lazy and on welfare! Bottle feed? Selfish and lazy! Breast feed beyond the socially accepted cut off point? Freak! Etc etc.

    Once we decide to become q mother we open our lives to inspection by others, the media, society etc. As soon as we do something that's even vaguely out of kilter with what's deemed ok but the norm at that time, we get criticised.

    Men go largely unscathed in all of this. They are just as much a part of this decision but are not even mentioned.

    Anyway that's just my thoughts.
    You are very insightful. I've never thought about it from this perspective but you've hit the nail on the head for me.


 

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