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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    EXACTLY. 99.9% of the time gender selection is for family balancing purposes. So these families already have 2,3,4,5+ of the same gender. What on earth is wrong with letting these people have one of the opposite sex?? I just don't get it.
    Where did you get that statistic from? It seems like you are just making an assumption about '99.9%" of the families who would choose to select their child's gender. Either way, it still changes the balance of male-female that nature makes sure is equal.
    I am thinking more long-term. Technology that is not used now, will become used in a limited way. Then it will become more main******. Pretty soon, it is more likely than not that people are utilising the technology to design the family they choose. There is a gender imbalance in China simply due to the one child policy, and people aborting girl babies, or killing them after they have been born. Our generation should understand better than anyone how quickly new technologies go from being used by the minority to the majority. And who will be excluded from using this technology? You say someone with 2 boys should be allowed to select to have a girl. But what about someone who only wants one child - and wants that child to be a girl? Why should that person be excluded from selecting gender just because they want fewer children? It's easy to say 'oh we will take away the right to use the technology once things start going bad' - but once something is out there, it's really difficult to then take it away. Take smoking, for example. We KNOW it is bad. We've known for a long time. But once we are given the right to smoke, it is very difficult to take that right away. I think it is a very slippery slope, and we need to be so careful. It is so much bigger than 'I want a girl/boy baby'. The potential effects are huge.

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  3. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Where did you get that statistic from? It seems like you are just making an assumption about '99.9%" of the families who would choose to select their child's gender. Either way, it still changes the balance of male-female that nature makes sure is equal.
    I am thinking more long-term. Technology that is not used now, will become used in a limited way. Then it will become more main******. Pretty soon, it is more likely than not that people are utilising the technology to design the family they choose. There is a gender imbalance in China simply due to the one child policy, and people aborting girl babies, or killing them after they have been born. Our generation should understand better than anyone how quickly new technologies go from being used by the minority to the majority. And who will be excluded from using this technology? You say someone with 2 boys should be allowed to select to have a girl. But what about someone who only wants one child - and wants that child to be a girl? Why should that person be excluded from selecting gender just because they want fewer children? It's easy to say 'oh we will take away the right to use the technology once things start going bad' - but once something is out there, it's really difficult to then take it away. Take smoking, for example. We KNOW it is bad. We've known for a long time. But once we are given the right to smoke, it is very difficult to take that right away. I think it is a very slippery slope, and we need to be so careful. It is so much bigger than 'I want a girl/boy baby'. The potential effects are huge.
    When I said 99.9% of the time obviously that wasnt from a direct source. I (like the pp) have spent a lot of time on the gd forums and I say this with certainty - almost all of them are there because they have a large number of children who are all the same gender. In my 4 years of hanging around those forums I have barely ever come across a woman who was looking to put themselves through gender selection for their second child, let alone their first. And were not talking about China here, we are talking about laws specific to Australia. So don't even worry about China. Trust me when I say this, the gender balance is the weakest argument against GS because it just wouldn't happen. iVF is too invasive, too expensive and too extreme for many to bother. And most people just don't care what gender they get, or at any rate don't care enough to go through IVF. I think the main US clinic that does GS sees approximately 15 Australian couples a month looking to do GS, 70% want girls, 30% wanr boys. So let's hypothesize that triple that amount may access it in Aus if it became legal. That's 45 couples a month, that's 540 a year. Out of 200,000 babies born in Aus every year, 540 is a drop in the ocean. Even if it was 1000 it still wouldnt change anything. Honestly not something to even bother worrying about.

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  5. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    When I said 99.9% of the time obviously that wasnt from a direct source. I (like the pp) have spent a lot of time on the gd forums and I say this with certainty - almost all of them are there because they have a large number of children who are all the same gender. In my 4 years of hanging around those forums I have barely ever come across a woman who was looking to put themselves through gender selection for their second child, let alone their first. And were not talking about China here, we are talking about laws specific to Australia. So don't even worry about China. Trust me when I say this, the gender balance is the weakest argument against GS because it just wouldn't happen. iVF is too invasive, too expensive and too extreme for many to bother. And most people just don't care what gender they get, or at any rate don't care enough to go through IVF. I think the main US clinic that does GS sees approximately 15 Australian couples a month looking to do GS, 70% want girls, 30% wanr boys. So let's hypothesize that triple that amount may access it in Aus if it became legal. That's 45 couples a month, that's 540 a year. Out of 200,000 babies born in Aus every year, 540 is a drop in the ocean. Even if it was 1000 it still wouldnt change anything. Honestly not something to even bother worrying about.
    It's not so much that I'm trying to use it as an argument against GS, more that I think that gender balance in society is really a valid consideration with allowing GS. At the moment it costs, what, 20k to travel overseas and select a particular gender? What if the technology were readily available to all Australians, and it was medicare funded, and it only cost 2 or 3k to select the gender of your child. Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that this would be much more heavily utilised? It also seems strange for people saying that GS should be available - but only to me. Not to TOO many people. But as long as I get to utilise GS, then that's ok. Again, what restrictions are to be placed on who is or is not allowed to use the technology? How limited should it be? Should it be available to be readily used by all Australians?

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  7. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT75 View Post
    You don't think it's an insult to say that women who only want sons have not had healthy female relationships.
    Maybe this is an educational opportunity....What other (healthy) reasons exist for a mum to be only wanting daughters?

    On a related note - I am stoked to have 2 boys and maybe it's due to the fact that I don't really get along with my mum!

  8. #305
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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    What if the technology were readily available to all Australians, and it was medicare funded, and it only cost 2 or 3k to select the gender of your child. ?
    Hell no re the Medicare funding!

    If you are suffering sever GD, that needs to be addressed prior to having kids. If you are healthy and happy and want to GS from a purely personal preference perspective fund it ya darn self! If you can't then that's life.

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  10. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Hell no re the Medicare funding!

    If you are suffering sever GD, that needs to be addressed prior to having kids. If you are healthy and happy and want to GS from a purely personal preference perspective fund it ya darn self! If you can't then that's life.
    I agree.

    Just so I understand - none of the cycle be Medicare funded? Or the GS part of it?

    The thing is people do not think they have any issue that needs addressing or fixing. That's why I think you need compulsory counselling. And to complete it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I agree.

    Just so I understand - none of the cycle be Medicare funded? Or the GS part of it?

    The thing is people do not think they have any issue that needs addressing or fixing. That's why I think you need compulsory counselling. And to complete it.
    You only get Medicare funding (I think) if you are medically infertile. Gender preference is not infertility so no Medicare funding would be available. Someone with more up to date knowledge can correct me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    You only get Medicare funding (I think) if you are medically infertile. Gender preference is not infertility so no Medicare funding would be available. Someone with more up to date knowledge can correct me.
    I thought that too but if you do genuinely have fertility issues and then want to GS I wonder if that will then not be funded or only partially funded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I thought that too but if you do genuinely have fertility issues and then want to GS I wonder if that will then not be funded or only partially funded.
    I imagine it would be the same as PGD. The IVF part would be covered but not the testing for gender.

    Trust me, if it's one thing IVF clinics are good at its charging people and figuring out what stuff costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Maybe this is an educational opportunity....What other (healthy) reasons exist for a mum to be only wanting daughters?
    !
    The majority of single women having children have a preference for girls due to potential problems arising due to the absence of male role models.. So easier to raise a daughter with no male partner. Suspect it would be similar for lesbian couples, but I am not sure.

    Those women wanting to only have one child.. For overpopulation, $$ reasons.. They may want to select the gender.

    For those that have discarded embryos after completing their family... Do u know that the wait list for donor embryos in Oz is up to 5 years.

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