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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    This is the thing though, ethics are subjective. What you find foul, I find OK. We have women that can access donor sperm and choose the characteristics she's likes (blonde hair, blue eyes) and yet this is ethically acceptable? I think it's just a matter of getting used to the idea and it becoming main******. Once people get used to it I don't think anyone would care because it would be such a small percentage of couples that access this technology. Loads of people have babies for the wrong reasons - to fix a marriage, to trap a partner, because they were too drunk or drugged up to care... So what is wrong with helping a couple get a baby that will be truly, deeply loved? It's not about wanting a girl to dress up in pink or a boy to pass on the family name, more often than not it's about fantasizing about how that little person will add to the family dynamic and what the parent child relationship will be like when they are grown up etc.
    I don't think the example of choosing a sperm donor is really comparable. A sperm is a single gamete. A woman is making a "pre-conception" choice, before life has been created.

    Gender selection necessitates the awful decision to bin embryos based on their gender. I would actually have less problem with it if it were possible to physically separate Y-sperm and X-sperm, and THEN do the ICSI etc. This is again a "pre-conception" manoeuvre. You are not chucking out healthy life based on gender.

    Yes, in IVF people discard embryos when their family is complete. But they are discarded as part of the IVF "lotto", and not because they will have boy or girl bits.

    And I wish there was a better shortening of gender-disappointment than GD. I keep reading it as Gestational Diabetes

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  3. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    I personally had no attachment to my embryos and don't feel you can compare embryos and living, healthy children. To me they were just a bunch of 6 to 8 cells that won't guarantee me a child, let alone a healthy one.

    What are your thoughts on microsort @J37?
    We must have been typing at the same time, because what I was describing in terms of separating Y-sperm and X-sperm in a "pre-conception manoeuvre" must be what you are calling "MicroSort". I've honestly never heard of it. Is it used widely? How is it regulated? How is it "audited", so to speak?

    Some of the websites which mentioned MicroSort seemed to mention PGD in the same phrase, which is clearly not separating sperm. Anyone really know anything about this? (And not off the Google search, as I can do that myself).

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    Last edited by J37; 24-05-2016 at 17:35.

  4. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Some of the websites which mentioned MicroSort seemed to mention PGD in the same phrase, which is clearly not separating sperm. Anyone really know anything about this? (And not off the Google search, as I can do that myself).
    My understanding based on the hubber that used it, is that they separate the male and female sperm, then use the preferred gender with ICU. It clearly ups the chances but isn't fool proof as she had triplets - 2 girls and one boy (she wanted a girl). From memory this Hubber is pro life (I'm pretty sure?) and the fact this process reduced the chances of discarding unwanted embies was attractive to her.

  5. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashling View Post
    If you're a woman and you only want sons, I pity you, because obviously you have missed out on healthy female relationships in your life.
    I find this really insulting.

    My mother and I are extremely close. My aunts and I are like sisters (them being aged 8-16 when I was born).

    I have only ever wanted a little boy (once I accepted the notion of having kids).

    I have a baby girl I adore and do not regret, but I still want a boy.

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  7. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post

    Some of the websites which mentioned MicroSort seemed to mention PGD in the same phrase, which is clearly not separating sperm. Anyone really know anything about this? (And not off the Google search, as I can do that myself).

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    Some people use Microsort to increase the chance of higher numbers of their desired embryos and then PGD to double check before it's transferred

  8. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    My understanding based on the hubber that used it, is that they separate the male and female sperm, then use the preferred gender with ICU. It clearly ups the chances but isn't fool proof as she had triplets - 2 girls and one boy (she wanted a girl). From memory this Hubber is pro life (I'm pretty sure?) and the fact this process reduced the chances of discarding unwanted embies was attractive to her.
    Gahhh ICI not ICU But you knew what I meant lol

  9. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Hold on you quoted me so I'm responding. I did not say it's a mental illness. Members of my immediate family have a mental illness so I do not use that term lightly.

    Edit I just did a bit more reading and GD can have elements of depression, anxiety and PTSD as well as other problems.

    It's a question of extreme. If you would abort a foetus because it's not the right gender then I imagine it's at the extreme end. If you'd do IVF for no other reason than to select the gender of your baby? I don't know. If you'd discard unwanted embryos for not being the right gender? Again, I don't know.

    It's a question of degree.
    I did quote you, and to be fair, it probably wasn't a good example.

    What got my back up and reason for my quoted post on page 25 or so, was several people denying anyone had implied that people who favour / go through with gender selection were unwell. Had they been following from the start, they'd know that was untrue.

    In that same post, I did say that the quotes were a bit old, and it seemed like most people (including myself) agree that severe GD causing depression etc was an issue which needed to be addressed. In particular anyone going to the extreme and terminating for that reason alone.

    What I don't agree with is the blanket statement that anyone who goes through with it is mentally unwell. Maybe that wasn't said by anyone explicitly, but after reading 24 pages, it's what I took to be the opinions of a few, hence my disagreement.
    Last edited by ilex; 24-05-2016 at 18:43. Reason: typo

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  11. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    Do you think that someone who rejects their own baby because they are the 'wrong' gender is of sound mind?
    Not at all - that is an issue.

    What I don't agree with is the statement that anyone who has some GD and / or goes through gender selection to be unwell.
    Last edited by ilex; 24-05-2016 at 18:43.

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  13. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    I did quote you, and to be fair, it probably wasn't a good example.

    What got my back up and reason for my quoted post on page 25 or so, was several people denying anyone had inferred that people who favour / go through with gender selection were unwell. Had they been following from the start, they'd know that was untrue.

    In that same post, I did say that the quotes were a bit old, and it seemed like most people (including myself) agree that severe GD causing depression etc was an issue which needed to be addressed. In particular anyone going to the extreme and terminating for that reason alone.

    What I don't agree with is the blanket statement that anyone who goes through with it is mentally unwell. Maybe that wasn't said by anyone explicitly, but after reading 24 pages, it's what I took to be the opinions of a few, hence my disagreement.
    None of the three examples you used are good examples. When I said it 'sounds like a real disorder', I was referring to Ginger Kat's post where she described what it was like living with GD. Before I read that I didn't think it was a real problem to be honest. That changed my view.

    From memory, @VicPark's comment came soon after that too.

    This was an ongoing discussion that you weren't a part of at the time. You've cherry picked posts to prove your point, and left out the post that your chosen posts were based on.

    As you admitted, no one actually said what you think they said, particularly the three people you targeted.

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  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    I don't think the example of choosing a sperm donor is really comparable. A sperm is a single gamete. A woman is making a "pre-conception" choice, before life has been created.

    Gender selection necessitates the awful decision to bin embryos based on their gender. I would actually have less problem with it if it were possible to physically separate Y-sperm and X-sperm, and THEN do the ICSI etc. This is again a "pre-conception" manoeuvre. You are not chucking out healthy life based on gender.

    Yes, in IVF people discard embryos when their family is complete. But they are discarded as part of the IVF "lotto", and not because they will have boy or girl bits.

    And I wish there was a better shortening of gender-disappointment than GD. I keep reading it as Gestational Diabetes

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    Is binning an embryo because of gender any different (or worse) than a woman who bins a healthy foetus through abortion? We are now getting into the territory of "when is life life?" and in my opinion they are cells in a petrie dish. Yes they have the potential to be a baby, but not until they are inside my body. I can understand why people don't agree with gender selection, but if it's because of discarding embryo's then essentially you must find normal ivf confronting too - because regardless of the reason they are still being binned.

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