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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    One may think "first-world problem", but historically it's not, is it.

    Henry VIII beheaded his wives for giving birth to the "wrong" gender.

    Baby girls have been killed outright in China as a result of their one-child policy.

    The technology may be available in other countries for the purposes of gender selection, but as Australians, surely we should safe-guard our ethical standards.

    Clearly it is those standards which are in dispute.

    After reading this thread, and having time to reflect, I can say now that I would advocate against any legislation which made pre-implantation gender selection for non-medical reasons, available. It seems so vile. I realise this may offend, but it is how I feel.

    I would advocate spending money on support services for parents experiencing gender-disappointment, and appropriate counselling made available.

    This thread's title is a question, hence invites opinion. This is my opinion.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    This is the thing though, ethics are subjective. What you find foul, I find OK. We have women that can access donor sperm and choose the characteristics she's likes (blonde hair, blue eyes) and yet this is ethically acceptable? I think it's just a matter of getting used to the idea and it becoming main******. Once people get used to it I don't think anyone would care because it would be such a small percentage of couples that access this technology. Loads of people have babies for the wrong reasons - to fix a marriage, to trap a partner, because they were too drunk or drugged up to care... So what is wrong with helping a couple get a baby that will be truly, deeply loved? It's not about wanting a girl to dress up in pink or a boy to pass on the family name, more often than not it's about fantasizing about how that little person will add to the family dynamic and what the parent child relationship will be like when they are grown up etc.

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  3. #262
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    I think another issue to be addressed is if gender selection became main******, there will be the very real possibility of an unbalanced male-female ratio in society. Nature makes sure we have appx 1/2 males and 1/2 females in our population. Consider 50, 100, 150 years down the track,with a population that is potentially selected to be 70% female and 30% male? Imagine the issues with our great grandchildren finding a partner and having children of their own in such a society.

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  5. #263
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    I really hope I don't offend anyone, but the other issue that concerns me about gender selection is the means necessary to guarantee your chosen gender. I do think it's terrible to 'throw away' embryos that aren't the right gender, but even if you're just separating sperm, unless the sperm of your chosen gender were then injected into the woman and had to make the journey as usual, I would be worried about the long-term impacts on the health of the resulting children.

    I have read a few articles about the increased health concerns potentially faced by children conceived via IVF. They don't know exactly why, whether it's the chemicals the embryos are stored in, or that the sperm isn't tested the way it is when it has to make the journey from vagina to fallopian tube etc but whatever the reason, there have been those observations.

    Obviously if you have no other way to conceive a child then I can understand circumventing the natural selection processes, but for the sake of gender, would anyone really think it's worth increasing the chances of having a less healthy baby?

    It's one thing to hope for a particular gender, but to go through the process as shown on that 60 minutes episode (where the male embryos were discarded and the egg was fertilised in a dish and then implanted), well even if we discovered that in Australia people would choose boys and girls in equal numbers I would still have concerns.

    Again I really hope I don't offend anyone. But this is not my opinion, this is just based on the research I've seen regarding IVF.

  6. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashling View Post
    I really hope I don't offend anyone, but the other issue that concerns me about gender selection is the means necessary to guarantee your chosen gender. I do think it's terrible to 'throw away' embryos that aren't the right gender, but even if you're just separating sperm, unless the sperm of your chosen gender were then injected into the woman and had to make the journey as usual, I would be worried about the long-term impacts on the health of the resulting children.

    I have read a few articles about the increased health concerns potentially faced by children conceived via IVF. They don't know exactly why, whether it's the chemicals the embryos are stored in, or that the sperm isn't tested the way it is when it has to make the journey from vagina to fallopian tube etc but whatever the reason, there have been those observations.

    Obviously if you have no other way to conceive a child then I can understand circumventing the natural selection processes, but for the sake of gender, would anyone really think it's worth increasing the chances of having a less healthy baby?

    It's one thing to hope for a particular gender, but to go through the process as shown on that 60 minutes episode (where the male embryos were discarded and the egg was fertilised in a dish and then implanted), well even if we discovered that in Australia people would choose boys and girls in equal numbers I would still have concerns.

    Again I really hope I don't offend anyone. But this is not my opinion, this is just based on the research I've seen regarding IVF.
    People discard embryos all the time. Regardless of gender. What's the difference?

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  8. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    I think another issue to be addressed is if gender selection became main******, there will be the very real possibility of an unbalanced male-female ratio in society. Nature makes sure we have appx 1/2 males and 1/2 females in our population. Consider 50, 100, 150 years down the track,with a population that is potentially selected to be 70% female and 30% male? Imagine the issues with our great grandchildren finding a partner and having children of their own in such a society.
    There has been no such problem in all the other countries that do gender selection - including the US

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  10. #266
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    This is just my musings, but I think what makes me feel queasy about this is the deliberate nature of it. It's not like you create a bunch of embryos and implant a good one, lucky dip style. When you get into selecting them like this you are essentially choosing which of your embryos will be granted life and which ones won't.

    It's feels a little 'Sophie's Choice'. It's hand picking which healthy child should have a life and which one shouldn't. I can't even articulate what's wrong with that, it just doesn't feel right.

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  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    Good on you for taking things out of context. Why don't you attach the clip where someone who suffers from GD agreed that it is like a form of depression?

    To most of us, we don't understand this but we're trying. A couple of people on this thread who suffer from GD have very eloquently put forward the case that this is a real disorder, not just a preference. I didn't believe it was until I read this thread.

    Up until you arrived and decided to get offended by people taking on board the lived experiences of others on this thread, I felt everyone was learning from each other.

    And to be clear, I know plenty of people who suffer from mental illness. They are incredibly strong people who I greatly admire.
    What I find offensive is people sitting behind their computers deciding that any form of GD is a mental illness. As someone who has dealt with mental illness personally, and within my immediate family, it's insulting.

    Mental illness is not a joke. Until GD is in the DSM, people should stop calling it such. It's not a term to be thrown around lightly.

    PS - I'm not the only one who found it offensive so get off your high horse
    Last edited by ilex; 24-05-2016 at 16:20. Reason: typo

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  14. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashling View Post
    I really hope I don't offend anyone, but the other issue that concerns me about gender selection is the means necessary to guarantee your chosen gender. I do think it's terrible to 'throw away' embryos that aren't the right gender, but even if you're just separating sperm, unless the sperm of your chosen gender were then injected into the woman and had to make the journey as usual, I would be worried about the long-term impacts on the health of the resulting children.

    I have read a few articles about the increased health concerns potentially faced by children conceived via IVF. They don't know exactly why, whether it's the chemicals the embryos are stored in, or that the sperm isn't tested the way it is when it has to make the journey from vagina to fallopian tube etc but whatever the reason, there have been those observations.

    Obviously if you have no other way to conceive a child then I can understand circumventing the natural selection processes, but for the sake of gender, would anyone really think it's worth increasing the chances of having a less healthy baby?

    It's one thing to hope for a particular gender, but to go through the process as shown on that 60 minutes episode (where the male embryos were discarded and the egg was fertilised in a dish and then implanted), well even if we discovered that in Australia people would choose boys and girls in equal numbers I would still have concerns.

    Again I really hope I don't offend anyone. But this is not my opinion, this is just based on the research I've seen regarding IVF.
    As someone who has no other choice than IVF, I'd be keen to read this research. Do you have links to the studies?

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  16. #269
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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    What I find offensive is people sitting behind their computers deciding that any form of GD is a mental illness. As someone who has dealt with mental illness personally, and within my immediate family, it's insulting.

    Mental illness is not a joke. Until GD is in the DSM, people should stop calling it such. It's not a term to be thrown around lightly.

    PS - I'm not the only one who found it offensive so get off your high horse
    Hold on you quoted me so I'm responding. I did not say it's a mental illness. Members of my immediate family have a mental illness so I do not use that term lightly.

    Edit I just did a bit more reading and GD can have elements of depression, anxiety and PTSD as well as other problems.

    It's a question of extreme. If you would abort a foetus because it's not the right gender then I imagine it's at the extreme end. If you'd do IVF for no other reason than to select the gender of your baby? I don't know. If you'd discard unwanted embryos for not being the right gender? Again, I don't know.

    It's a question of degree.
    Last edited by Sonja; 24-05-2016 at 16:26.

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  18. #270
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    My understanding of what has been said is that depression could well be a consequence or the cause of GD. I think it's awesome that most people have acknowledged that GD may more than just a selfish preference.

    As someone else who has suffered depression, ED, anxiety, been a cutter and contemplated suicide, I'm not offended at all that the two are being linked.

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