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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH-KatiesMum View Post
    Nobody has said that at all.
    Nah, they did. Clipped quotes below. As I said previously, I think people have landed at a less extreme view and we can all agree that severe GD needs to be addressed. But to lump everyone with any GD into the mentally unwell bucket is unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    What if it's just a band-aid though? If the underlying issues aren't addressed they may still bubble to the surface down the track. Wouldn't it be in the child's best interests to (if possible) have underlying issues (that lead to unfair and unrealistic expectations) dealt with before the child is conceived?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    With my armchair psychologists hat on I'd hazard a guess in its severe forms it's a form of depression. It's one thing to desire a boy or girl baby but to actively spend thousands of $$ making it happen or fear you won't cope with the outcome to me that is a type of psychological problem. Or to have an abortion because the baby is the wrong sex. Or to not truly feel you could care for a baby of a certain sex.


    But to me all of those feelings are completely irrational. I truly don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    This is a really interesting thread. I have to say though that I'm getting more inclined to say it should be illegal for non medical reasons. This is a real disorder by the sounds of things and should therefore be treated by professionals for the sake of the children.

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  3. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    Nah, they did. Clipped quotes below. As I said previously, I think people have landed at a less extreme view and we can all agree that severe GD needs to be addressed. But to lump everyone with any GD into the mentally unwell bucket is unfair.
    Good on you for taking things out of context. Why don't you attach the clip where someone who suffers from GD agreed that it is like a form of depression?

    To most of us, we don't understand this but we're trying. A couple of people on this thread who suffer from GD have very eloquently put forward the case that this is a real disorder, not just a preference. I didn't believe it was until I read this thread.

    Up until you arrived and decided to get offended by people taking on board the lived experiences of others on this thread, I felt everyone was learning from each other.

    And to be clear, I know plenty of people who suffer from mental illness. They are incredibly strong people who I greatly admire.

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  5. #253
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    Yep I stand by my comment and still maintain that to be that disturbed by GD that you would pay thousands to select a gender for fear of not loving the baby if it was the wrong sex, or for fear of the possible depression that might ensue if the baby is not what you wanted, then I do struggle with how that isn't a psychological issue.

    Not every psychological issue is the end of the world though. I get that for many on here they just want to experience parenting both genders. But a few have admitted they didn't know how they would have felt if the baby had been the "wrong" gender.

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  7. #254
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    This is an interesting topic for me. I grew up in a family of European descent where boys were highly prized over girls. My sister and I were well aware from an early age the lengths our parents went to for our younger brother. They saw a specialist, had my dad's sperm tested to make sure he produced y sperm and then timed intercourse with ovulation. They were successful.

    When I got pregnant, everyone hoped it was a boy, except for my partner. He was hoping for a girl. He'd come from the opposite situation; he was actually convinced that the fact he wasn't a girl (and neither was his brother) had played a role in his parents divorce because they had always talked about how much they wanted a daughter. He also felt he wanted a girl first because he thought females were more responsible and might set a better example for a younger sibling (I certainly wasn't lol).

    Now I have a daughter. I think I'm the luckiest person in the world to be her mother. In my mothers group, there are only a few girls, it's mostly baby boys. The mothers of boys are all so happy they have boys, and some of the girl mothers say they wanted boys and will be trying again asap for a boy. I don't get it. I never have. What is it that girls don't do that boys do that is so desirable? The only people I meet who seem to want girls are those who already have 3+ boys, and even then, many of those say they're so happy they've only had boys.

    So I could never understand only wanting one gender. If you're a woman and you only want sons, I pity you, because obviously you have missed out on healthy female relationships in your life. If you're a man, I also pity you because on Vikings (yes I know it's a tv show but this was a beautiful speech), upon losing his only daughter, the father remarks something along the lines of, 'they say you should love your sons more, but a man can be jealous of his sons. You were the light of my life.' And if you see good fathers with their daughters you know it to be true.

    Having said all this, I now want a boy for my next pregnancy. I would be very happy with a girl. But if I had a choice, I would choose a boy. Not because of anything I want or expect from this boy, but because of the relationship I have with my brother. It can be hard for a girl to have male friends in life. I have always struggled, it always seems to become complicated and I can't count how many friendships (at least I thought we were friends) I have lost because the guy told me how he really felt and things were never the same. Now my only male friends are the partners of my girlfriends. Also, my partner is an amazing father and man in general and I know he would be a good father to any son. He is an amazing father to his daughter, but he's also not the kind of man who would be jealous of a son, or who isn't comfortable with showing emotion or physical affection etc. He would support him if he was gay, trans, whatever and I think men need supportive fathers and too often don't have them.

    But when I asked my partner if he wanted to try for a boy, his response was, 'people want a certain gender because they attach expectations to that gender. I don't, I just want a happy healthy kid.'

    So I probably wouldn't exist if the technology was accessible here. That said, my mum has been a good mother to my brother. She just wanted a son because according to her culture, much of her value was tied to being able to bear a son. We're very close now, and when I was pregnant and she said she hoped it was a boy, I said I hope it's a girl because then maybe one day I could have with her what I have with you. I think for the first time she understood something then, because she does also really love her daughters. And now that we're all adults, she is spends more time with us than she does with my brother.

  8. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I think we need to be very careful with posts like this. Sally1981 has laid out a very raw story. I know in her position if I read this I would see it as challenging that decision which I don't think you mean to do.

    Perhaps this is a good discussion for another thread?

    Edit I saw her response which was measured.
    I meant to say thank you for this. Miracle stories can be triggering for people like me so thank you for raising it. I've had to work on that. The way I see it is that devastating experiences likes ours are quite rare so most people's experiences are limited. I can't blame people who's only experience of this is a miracle story, for basing their opinions on that story.

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  10. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    My friend was told her DS baby would not survive more than a few hours or days after the birth. He has other chromosomal issues that contributed too though. He is now a healthy & thriving 1 year old. He smiles, waves hello and claps his hands I guess I struggle with the idea of 'incompatible with life' because it is often a best guess, and isnt always true.
    I think it's true a lot of the time but you don't hear about it. There is huge shame around TFMR and it isn't discussed, you may know people who've gone down this road but have never openly discussed it. Also it's probably an unnecessary stab at people who have had to make that decision.

    Until you've walked a mile in those shoes I don't think you could ever really understand.

  11. #257
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    One may think "first-world problem", but historically it's not, is it.

    Henry VIII beheaded his wives for giving birth to the "wrong" gender.

    Baby girls have been killed outright in China as a result of their one-child policy.

    The technology may be available in other countries for the purposes of gender selection, but as Australians, surely we should safe-guard our ethical standards.

    Clearly it is those standards which are in dispute.

    After reading this thread, and having time to reflect, I can say now that I would advocate against any legislation which made pre-implantation gender selection for non-medical reasons, available. It seems so vile. I realise this may offend, but it is how I feel.

    I would advocate spending money on support services for parents experiencing gender-disappointment, and appropriate counselling made available.

    This thread's title is a question, hence invites opinion. This is my opinion.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  13. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    One may think "first-world problem", but historically it's not, is it.

    Henry VIII beheaded his wives for giving birth to the "wrong" gender.

    Baby girls have been killed outright in China as a result of their one-child policy.

    The technology may be available in other countries for the purposes of gender selection, but as Australians, surely we should safe-guard our ethical standards.

    Clearly it is those standards which are in dispute.

    After reading this thread, and having time to reflect, I can say now that I would advocate against any legislation which made pre-implantation gender selection for non-medical reasons, available. It seems so vile. I realise this may offend, but it is how I feel.

    I would advocate spending money on support services for parents experiencing gender-disappointment, and appropriate counselling made available.

    This thread's title is a question, hence invites opinion. This is my opinion.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    How do you resolve this against the reality that it's legal in almost every country that has the technology? Effectively we are one of the only developed countries that doesn't currently allow it. If they were able to get comfort with it and otherwise deal with any potential fall out should we?

  14. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    How do you resolve this against the reality that it's legal in almost every country that has the technology? Effectively we are one of the only developed countries that doesn't currently allow it. If they were able to get comfort with it and otherwise deal with any potential fall out should we?
    No, I don't believe we should.

    I can't bear the idea of healthy embryos being chucked in the bin because they are the "wrong" gender. It's an extremely upsetting thought.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  16. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    One may think "first-world problem", but historically it's not, is it.

    Henry VIII beheaded his wives for giving birth to the "wrong" gender.

    Baby girls have been killed outright in China as a result of their one-child policy.

    The technology may be available in other countries for the purposes of gender selection, but as Australians, surely we should safe-guard our ethical standards.

    Clearly it is those standards which are in dispute.

    After reading this thread, and having time to reflect, I can say now that I would advocate against any legislation which made pre-implantation gender selection for non-medical reasons, available. It seems so vile. I realise this may offend, but it is how I feel.

    I would advocate spending money on support services for parents experiencing gender-disappointment, and appropriate counselling made available.

    This thread's title is a question, hence invites opinion. This is my opinion.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    This is the thing though, ethics are subjective. What you find foul, I find OK. We have women that can access donor sperm and choose the characteristics she's likes (blonde hair, blue eyes) and yet this is ethically acceptable? I think it's just a matter of getting used to the idea and it becoming main******. Once people get used to it I don't think anyone would care because it would be such a small percentage of couples that access this technology. Loads of people have babies for the wrong reasons - to fix a marriage, to trap a partner, because they were too drunk or drugged up to care... So what is wrong with helping a couple get a baby that will be truly, deeply loved? It's not about wanting a girl to dress up in pink or a boy to pass on the family name, more often than not it's about fantasizing about how that little person will add to the family dynamic and what the parent child relationship will be like when they are grown up etc.

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