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  1. #231
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    This whole area is such a minefield. I've been reading along with this thread but haven't commented yet because I can't really figure out where I sit!

    On one hand, I had to do IVF to conceive my DD - I spent some time not knowing if I'd ever get pregnant so I see my DD as my greatest blessing, and I would feel exactly the same had she been a boy. I can't really imagine why anyone would willingly subject themselves to the whole awful IVF process if they didn't need to. But then if I had the option of knowing the sex of my remaining embryos, when it comes time to try for baby number two, I'd probably ask for my girl embryos to be put back first - mainly because I have an awesome relationship with my sister and I'd love for my DD to experience the same thing, plus I want to have the chance to reuse her gorgeous girly stuff she grew out of too quickly! But if they didn't work, I'd happily try the boy ones too. Obviously I don't have that option so I won't be doing that and I'll be overjoyed if I'm ever able to bring a second baby into the world, regardless of gender. But then if I think it would be OK for me to do it because I'm already doing IVF anyway, why then wouldn't it be ok for someone else to do IVF for that purpose? It's their body after all and if they want to go through the whole process why should I stop them?

    I think it's the willingness to discard perfectly good embryos that doesn't sit right with me. To me, it's so hard to create those little embies in the first place, I can't imagine just discarding unwanted ones. But I don't think forced donation of unwanted embryos is right either.

    This makes my brain hurt. I'm so glad I'm not the one responsible for making this decision!!

  2. #232
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    I have been reading along, with interest, and many people have put forward valuable discussion points.

    But there has also been an unappealing flavour of "If I don't get my boy and girl, I'm going to throw a temper tantrum, and create a DSM-V psychiatric illness so I can get my own way!". Very disturbing.

    Outside of choosing physical traits in a sperm donor for IVF so bubs can look like Mum (before life has been created), and outside of selecting embryos where there is an established inherited sex-chromosome abnormality, I absolutely do not think it should be allowed. I think it's a terrible path to follow.

    By all means, have Medicare-funded counselling available for couples experiencing "gender disappointment". Allow them to feel supported in their "grief". I'm not a heartless b!tch, and I am not disputing the validity of gender disappointment. But this ain't right.


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  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky27 View Post


    So it's a hard question. I guess I personally wouldn't chose to do it as I don't believe that it's my place to chose. However I don't know how I feel about others choosing. And even if people do chose their gender I wonder how they would feel for example if they had all boys then selected a girl but the girl wanted to be a tomboy & didn't want to dress up in pretty dresses & do girly things? Or the other way around desperately wanting a boy but then get one that wants to do girly sort of things?

    I thought the same things when I first started thinking about this topic. But then I thought well these parents would feel the same disappointment if they naturally conceived the gender of their choice and the child didn't live up to the parents expectations. (The poor child 😔).

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  5. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I don't see that as pro choice. A 39 week old baby can live outside the uterus. That's not something I can accept yet still I am pro choice.
    Then what about a viable 35 week old foetus, whose mother just found out it had DS? Or a 37 week old foetus whose 14 year old mother has only just discovered she is pregnant, and doesnt want to continue the pregnancy? Thats where I struggle. Pro choice is pro choice. Supporting a mothers right to choose,whether or not you agree with why. Or when. Lots of viable foetuses are terminated for various reasons. I guess we all have a 'line' that we feel shouldnt be crossed. 100% pro choice means supporting a mothers right to choose, at any gestation, for any reason. 100% pro life means... not taking contraception? I think most of us sit somewhere in between the two.

    Sorry, I've shot off into a tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    I have been reading along, with interest, and many people have put forward valuable discussion points.

    But there has also been an unappealing flavour of "If I don't get my boy and girl, I'm going to throw a temper tantrum, and create a DSM-V psychiatric illness so I can get my own way!". Very disturbing.

    Outside of choosing physical traits in a sperm donor for IVF so bubs can look like Mum (before life has been created), and outside of selecting embryos where there is an established inherited sex-chromosome abnormality, I absolutely do not think it should be allowed. I think it's a terrible path to follow.

    By all means, have Medicare-funded counselling available for couples experiencing "gender disappointment". Allow them to feel supported in their "grief". I'm not a heartless b!tch, and I am not disputing the validity of gender disappointment. But this ain't right.


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    Lol sorry, you're "not a heartless b!tch" and yet you're accusing women who have GD of throwing a temper tantrum, and creating a DSM-V psychiatric illness so they can get their own way. Thats a pretty nasty comment. That isn't what these women are doing AT ALL. They just want to access a technology that is readily available in other countries so they can complete their own families. You have the right to oppose gender selection, but you don't have the right to belittle or accuse these women about their desires or their "grief" as you so kindly put in commas because clearly you think it's a load of bollocks. I truly believe that you have no right to be outwardly judgy until you've walked in someone's shoes. You don't get it, that's OK, but don't throw insults about these women having a temper tantrum etc.

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  8. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post

    But there has also been an unappealing flavour of "If I don't get my boy and girl, I'm going to throw a temper tantrum, and create a DSM-V psychiatric illness so I can get my own way!". Very disturbing.


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    I haven't got that vibe at all?

  9. #237
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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Then what about a viable 35 week old foetus, whose mother just found out it had DS? Or a 37 week old foetus whose 14 year old mother has only just discovered she is pregnant, and doesnt want to continue the pregnancy? Thats where I struggle. Pro choice is pro choice. Supporting a mothers right to choose,whether or not you agree with why. Or when. Lots of viable foetuses are terminated for various reasons. I guess we all have a 'line' that we feel shouldnt be crossed. 100% pro choice means supporting a mothers right to choose, at any gestation, for any reason. 100% pro life means... not taking contraception? I think most of us sit somewhere in between the two.

    Sorry, I've shot off into a tangent.
    I don't have any answers for that. To me, pro choice is not supporting termination at any gestation. We had a very detailed thread on this a few years ago and a number of members linked many discussions about why this isn't pro choice. I don't have the info handy but it did give me some peace of mind.
    Last edited by Sonja; 23-05-2016 at 12:50.

  10. #238
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    Out of curiosity, if it were easy and cheap for your hubby to swing by a doctors office, go in a cup and then pick up a vial of 'boy sperm' and girl sperm' a week later - would you have done this?

  11. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerKat View Post
    Lol sorry, you're "not a heartless b!tch" and yet you're accusing women who have GD of throwing a temper tantrum, and creating a DSM-V psychiatric illness so they can get their own way. Thats a pretty nasty comment. That isn't what these women are doing AT ALL. They just want to access a technology that is readily available in other countries so they can complete their own families. You have the right to oppose gender selection, but you don't have the right to belittle or accuse these women about their desires or their "grief" as you so kindly put in commas because clearly you think it's a load of bollocks. I truly believe that you have no right to be outwardly judgy until you've walked in someone's shoes. You don't get it, that's OK, but don't throw insults about these women having a temper tantrum etc.
    Alright, you're probably right, I am being judgmental, and I'm owning up to that. But I see this as a pretty nasty use of ART.

    No, I haven't had gender disappointment. My disappointment came in another form. I wanted a third baby very, very much...but instead I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and chemotherapy put me into a post-menopausal state. So yes, I do understand grieving the family you thought you would, or should, have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Alright, you're probably right, I am being judgmental, and I'm owning up to that. But I see this as a pretty nasty use of ART.

    No, I haven't had gender disappointment. My disappointment came in another form. I wanted a third baby very, very much...but instead I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and chemotherapy put me into a post-menopausal state. So yes, I do understand grieving the family you thought you would, or should, have.

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    I'm so sorry that this happened to you

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