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  1. #191
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    I don't really have an issue with it.

    I don't think it is any different to when prospective parents request either sex when they are adopting (not sure if they are still able to do this, but they used to be able to).

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    I find the assumption that parents who want a certain gender are psychologically unwell rather insulting.

    I don't think that because you chose to select and transfer an embryo of a certain sex, you are unwell. Nor are you if you're a bit disappointed that the child you've conceived isn't your gender choice.

    What is wrong are people who abort a healthy baby which isn't the sex they want. That is crossing a line; a big fat red line. As is discarding unused embryos only because they are the "wrong" sex.
    That was the sort of actions I was referring to when I described extreme GS as a form of depression. I still don't understand why people have a preference but can live with the fact I'll probably never really understand.

    I can't also understand why people listen to certain music but I'm not about to make that illegal either.

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  4. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by PomPoms View Post
    I don't really have an issue with it.

    I don't think it is any different to when prospective parents request either sex when they are adopting (not sure if they are still able to do this, but they used to be able to).
    You can also choose specific characteristics when choosing donor eggs/sperm.

  5. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    I find the assumption that parents who want a certain gender are psychologically unwell rather insulting.

    I don't think that because you chose to select and transfer an embryo of a certain sex, you are unwell. Nor are you if you're a bit disappointed that the child you've conceived isn't your gender choice.

    What is wrong are people who abort a healthy baby which isn't the sex they want. That is crossing a line; a big fat red line. As is discarding unused embryos only because they are the "wrong" sex.
    They're not assumptions when the comments are based on things that are said by people suffering from gender disappointment. More than one person on this thread has given very good arguments as to why this is a serious mental health issue and not some trivial 'preference'. They convinced me, anyway.

    You can't have it both ways. You can't say it's insulting to call something a mental health issue on the one hand, then want people to treat it as a serious mental health issue that requires a change of law, on the other.

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  7. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I do agree with your last comment. My son is not into anything really boy related at all. He's got 3 sisters and if anything, apart from music, our house in gender neutral. My 2 eldest girls play one direction every waking moment they're home so he does have an intimate knowledge of boy bands.

    But he doesn't get super heroes, cars or trucks, and doesn't really like sport. So if you wanted a boy to take to the park and kick a footy with he'd be a disappointment. He'd be up in the playground with the girls re-enacting scenes from Frozen.
    Based purely on the examples give, I wouldn't call this gender neutral.
    But I agree that the stereotypical boy/girl roles are not all that typical.

    But, on hair colour, in my experience boys/men do get 'commented on' too. Red heads in particular. Not just as children.
    To those who say their hair colour does not matter in their career, I am curious- are you blond? Because, tbh, that is the colour (aside from red) that gets a bad rap. I speak as a white blond (hair I mean).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankenmum View Post
    What really is the difference between gender dissapointment from only getting the non-preffered sex, or having a child of the preferred sex who doesn't live up to the gender stereotype?
    Hmm, this is very interesting.

    For me, I have a bio daughter, a step daughter and a step son. Based purely on my experience during my pregnancy with DD, I can talk to a female child more 'intimately' than a male child because they have the parts.
    As in, if my daughter gets pregnant I can be detailed and relate. If my son's partner gets pregnant, I can give detail but not relate (to him. I could to DIL of course).
    Does that make sense? I don't have boy parts or relate to things from the viewpoint of a male, so I wouldn't quite be able to share it in the same way.

    Having said all that, when I found out I was pregnant, I wanted a boy rather than a girl. But I am happy with DD

    On the mental health aspect... if GD is considered a mental health thing, then it is a medical reason.
    Sure, we can 'treat' it, but it remains a medical reason and therefore should be a valid reason for GS.

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  9. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    You can't have it both ways. You can't say it's insulting to call something a mental health issue on the one hand, then want people to treat it as a serious mental health issue that requires a change of law, on the other.
    Nobody is saying its not a serious mental health issue - for some people it is indeed that - but it isnt a mental health problem for everyone. There are a lot of degrees.

    For the vast majority of people, having some disappointment isnt a mental health issue, it just takes a fair amount of adjustment. For some though, it does indeed create mental health problems that need addressing.

    So yes - it can be both ways. It can be a mental health condition - but assuming that everyone who would prefer a specific gender and would like to be able to choose has a mental health condition isnt good either.

    Some people would like to be able to choose the gender of their baby ... for whatever circumstances ... but it doesnt mean that they need serious help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT75 View Post
    Based purely on the examples give, I wouldn't call this gender neutral.
    But I agree that the stereotypical boy/girl roles are not all that typical.

    But, on hair colour, in my experience boys/men do get 'commented on' too. Red heads in particular. Not just as children.
    To those who say their hair colour does not matter in their career, I am curious- are you blond? Because, tbh, that is the colour (aside from red) that gets a bad rap. I speak as a white blond (hair ).
    I have been blonde (white blonde) and am now dark brown.

    When I was on the partnership program I had very blonde hair. It was never relevant.

    As for my comment about gender neutral, it's bizarre how you've taken it to be honest. Without detailing what my kids play with and how they play I'm not sure how you can say it's not gender neutral.

    My eldest only plays Lego and minecraft or reads books. And no princess Lego. She builds robots and houses and cars.

    My second is obsessed with horses and gymnastics. She spends most of her free time upside down or having horse riding lessons. Or doing maths problems. She is obsessed with maths.

    My son plays with play doh, kinetic sand (although it's the devils work and is not allowed in the house anymore) and slime. He loved my little pony and Dora. But mainly he plays whatever is older sister is playing.

    And my 2 year old plays with the others.

    I don't see our house as particularly boy or girl oriented. It's not by design just how it's worked out.

  12. #198
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    I'm interested as to why some have gd too. I do find it sad and hard to understand how some can't/don't accept the child they have due to the sex. While I had 3 boys I never once felt disapointment even when having our third knowing he was a boy and knowing he was our last. Dh would have liked a girl, his desire was much stronger than mine, because we had to do ivf anyway we did contemplate doing gs when planning number 3. We easily excepted we wouldn't be having a girl though.
    Last edited by Blessedwith3boys; 22-05-2016 at 21:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I have been blonde (white blonde) and am now dark brown.

    When I was on the partnership program I had very blonde hair. It was never relevant.

    As for my comment about gender neutral, it's bizarre how you've taken it to be honest. Without detailing what my kids play with and how they play I'm not sure how you can say it's not gender neutral.

    My eldest only plays Lego and minecraft or reads books. And no princess Lego. She builds robots and houses and cars.

    My second is obsessed with horses and gymnastics. She spends most of her free time upside down or having horse riding lessons. Or doing maths problems. She is obsessed with maths.

    My son plays with play doh, kinetic sand (although it's the devils work and is not allowed in the house anymore) and slime. He loved my little pony and Dora. But mainly he plays whatever is older sister is playing.

    And my 2 year old plays with the others.

    I don't see our house as particularly boy or girl oriented. It's not by design just how it's worked out.
    Hmm... I would say it might be industry related but really I think a lot of that stuff (prejudice) is just luck- as in you could get a great team in one company, and a horrid one in another.

    As I said, it was based purely on the examples given (not sure how that is bizarre)- girls listening to boy bands and playing Frozen.
    It wasn't me saying I didn't believe your house isn't gender neutral.
    Just that if you are saying it's not, it would be clearer with examples for both gender stereotypes

  14. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileitak View Post
    I find the assumption that parents who want a certain gender are psychologically unwell rather insulting.

    I don't think that because you chose to select and transfer an embryo of a certain sex, you are unwell. Nor are you if you're a bit disappointed that the child you've conceived isn't your gender choice.

    What is wrong are people who abort a healthy baby which isn't the sex they want. That is crossing a line; a big fat red line. As is discarding unused embryos only because they are the "wrong" sex.
    I think at the extreme end it is a psychological issue. Many people have gender preference, even gender disappointment (myself included), but MOST people wouldn't suffer it to the extreme, or pursue invasive conception, and/or international travel purely to have a gender choice.

    Anything taken to the extreme really is an issue. As a PP pointed out GD is like grief, and most people, after a period of time recover and those that don't might need some external help - and there is nothing wrong with that.

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