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  1. #1
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    Default Cc help and advice

    Please only read and contribute to this thread if you are pro sleep training as I don't want to be made to feel worse than I do and anyone who has read any of my other posts knows I have battled long and hard with ds2.
    Ds2 is 11 months and we tried cc at 5 months as we did the same with ds1 and it worked well. It didn't for ds2, he would scream non stop for over and hour, getting so worked up for naps I was giving up as I couldn't see an end to it. I persevered for weeks as things were gradually improving but it was tough and we still had some night wakings where he just couldn't seem to get back to sleep. Things gradually declined as I couldn't keep going with the cc constantly and until recently he was at the point of waking frequently all night, feeding 6-8 times as it the only thing that would calm him and I was sleeping in his cot. So I'm going to sleep school next week but about 10 days ago we thought we would try cc again.
    This time it worked amazingly similar to ds1. Within 2 days he was settling very quickly with only seconds of protesting and down to 1-2 night wakings with a dream feed. However last night he seemed to fall off the wagon and he had a spell between 2.30-3.30 where he just couldn't get back to sleep. He would go quiet for 5 mins and look like he was asleep but then the crying would start up again (this is what was happening last time we tried). I really didn't want to give in but I've been doing the dream feed at about 3.30 so when he had calmed down and seemed to fall asleep I fed him. Today however he has been a nightmare. Just now he screamed for over 30 mins (3,5,8,10 min checks) and although he's now asleep I can see it will only be a short nap. He's also super clingy (he is anyway but worse today). What's going on? What do I do? I can't face the prospect of things being like they were last time but also can't go back to how they were. Help!!!!

  2. #2
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    Is he in pain? Could it be teething or an ear infection? Did you give him panadol?

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    nh2489  (16-05-2016)

  4. #3
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    I just don't know with this baby. He seems to be constantly grumpy usually as he's tired or bored. I've tried nurofen when he appears to be teething, he had a bad cold a few weeks ago but that's gone and I couldn't think of any other reasons. I don't think room temp it clothing is the problem but I do try to consider these things. I'll see how today goes but yep I think I will give pain killers a go just in case. I feel that it's more of an emotional issue especially as he's so clingy today but I don't know where this change has come from.

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    Big hugs Hun, I know your struggles. I don't have any practical advice specific to CC as I didn't do CC with my kids, just wanted to offer hugs.

    The only advice I have is to yes try pain killers. Maybe see a GP or paed to rule out anything physical causing the sleep issues. And just keep at, consistency is key.

    Perhaps he might be more suited to shush pat? I think sleep school may have a solution using some shush pay and some CC at 11 months.

    Good luck Hun, I hope you find something that works for you all and you can get some much needed sleep.

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    nh2489  (16-05-2016)

  7. #5
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    Default Cc help and advice

    Ok. You mentioned he's "fallen off the wagon", how long ago was it that you started sleep training again. It could possibly be an extinction burst? (If you are unfamiliar with that just google it).
    Also, when dream feeding him, has it always been when he's asleep, or if he wakes at that time do you feed him regardless? You can't reward any crying with feeding, if he is due for a feed and he's crying you need to wait till he is back asleep for a good 10 minutes before doing a dream feed.

    I know with my girls and cc I need to be dead consistent, give them an inch they will take a mile and it will quickly escalate into multiple wake ups again.

    As he's 11 months now a dream feed isn't even necessary so it might he easier just to not feed him at all at night and just stick it out for 2 weeks?

    I found the 2-4am wake up/crying the hardest to deal with and nip in the bud. It took a long time for both girls. And she could persist for an hour or two you just have to be really tough (as much as that sucks). I find even now dd2 will occasionally wake at that time after sleeping through for awhile and if I feed her the next night it's earlier and so on until we are almost back to square one.

    Good luck Hun xxx

    Eta: it is not uncommon for bubs to be a bit clingy during sleep training but should ease after a few days. And panadol before bed can't hurt.
    Last edited by Little Miss Sunshine; 16-05-2016 at 14:17.

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  9. #6
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    Default Cc help and advice

    Oh and in regards to naps cc is very difficult as it takes a long time to be effective as they are less tired so can fight it more. I find now I've given up cc for naps and concentrating on getting the timings right. If she only dies 40 minutes I just get her up and put her down 30 minutes earlier as opposed to trying to stretch her as it was making us both miserable. For 2 naps at that age it should be 2.5 hours awake/nap/3 hours awake/nap roughly.
    I still feed her to sleep occasionally for naps if she's grizzly and hasn't impacted on how long she naps for or self settling for night.

    Eta: my apologies if you know or are doing this already

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    First of all - big hugs for you xx

    Has bub been checked over by a GP for medical issues such as ear/throat etc? If bub has a medical problem bub may not be comfortable enough to sleep through.

    Hun how is solid intake? Once a bub has been fully established on solids (3x per day including protein) for 6 weeks a dream feed isn't needed and can actually do more harm than good in terms of disrupting sleep patterns.

    How are bubs day naps? (Time/length)?. If bub has too
    Much/too little sleep during the day/ is too tired/not tired enough at night - night sleep can be disrupted.

    What is bubs routine for bedtime? If bub has an aide at bedtime (dummy/pat/cuddles/milk) that isn't there at 1/2/3am... Bub may wake and think "what the - where has my boob/cuddle/dummy" gone.

    You sure bub is warm enough? Do you have a thermometer in the room and if so what is the temp at bedtime and then when bub wakes through the night? What clothes/bedding is bub in? It can be very difficult to get the mix right and many parents underestimate the amount of bedding needed.

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    nh2489  (16-05-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    First of all - big hugs for you xx

    Has bub been checked over by a GP for medical issues such as ear/throat etc? If bub has a medical problem bub may not be comfortable enough to sleep through.

    Hun how is solid intake? Once a bub has been fully established on solids (3x per day including protein) for 6 weeks a dream feed isn't needed and can actually do more harm than good in terms of disrupting sleep patterns.

    How are bubs day naps? (Time/length)?. If bub has too
    Much/too little sleep during the day/ is too tired/not tired enough at night - night sleep can be disrupted.

    What is bubs routine for bedtime? If bub has an aide at bedtime (dummy/pat/cuddles/milk) that isn't there at 1/2/3am... Bub may wake and think "what the - where has my boob/cuddle/dummy" gone.

    You sure bub is warm enough? Do you have a thermometer in the room and if so what is the temp at bedtime and then when bub wakes through the night? What clothes/bedding is bub in? It can be very difficult to get the mix right and many parents underestimate the amount of bedding needed.
    Thanks for taking the time to reply. To answer some of your questions:-
    I don't think there are any obvious medical issues, he might be teething as he's been pulling his ear a bit but I'll keep an eye on things and get him checked if there are any other signs.
    Solid intake is pretty good. He's a tiny baby so hasn't been a big milk drinker but he's very good with solids and I'm happy he's eating decent amounts. I've now stopped bf (on Sunday so maybe this was a reason for his bad sleeping but I didn't think this would have a huge effect on him), and he's taking formula well now (he's cmpi so can't take cows milk yet).
    Day naps and routine are a major problem. I think this is the main issue and one I am hoping will be addressed at sleep school. Since starting cc this time he is waking between 5-6am but he's not all happy and awake, he's super tired and desperate to go back to sleep but can't. Last night we persevered with cc for over an hour and he would sleep for 5-10 mins at a time before waking again so we got him up at 6.15am. Then this messes up all the day sleeps as he's knackered by 8 and needs his first nap, he has another one at about 11.30 for about an hour and often a 30 min nap somewhere between 3.30-4.30. So at 11 months I think 3 naps is too much and in reality he only has 2-2.5hrs during the day so added to the 10 hours overnight he's not really getting enough in total. I'm hoping we can find someway to help him resettle at 5 that doesn't involve feeding or cuddling as I think he's the type of baby I can't give an inch to.
    Bedtime routine is ok. Bath at 6.30 then dressed and bed. I was feeding after bath but now I'm doing it before so trying to avoid feed straight before sleep. He has a dummy but he has a soft toy with some dummies attached so can find it himself during the night.
    In terms of room temp I think we are fine. I follow the recommendations so at the moment the room starts at 24c and drops to 21-22c during the night. He's in a long sleeved vest with a 2.5tog sleeping bag.
    Last night we had a much better night. He woke a couple of times but resettled himself so he pretty much slept through from 7-5am. I've stopped the dream feed but he did take his bottle at 6.15am really well so thinking he was a bit hungry. Maybe with time he will get used to this though. He's gone down for his 11.30 nap fine today so I'm putting yesterday down to a blip and fingers crossed things carry on improving!

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    Default Cc help and advice

    Plenty of protein/meat and carbs with solids?

    You have an independent room thermometer measuring room temp? As opposed to one on a baby monitor? (Sorry - had to ask. Ones on baby monitors can be 2-3 degrees out, thought it would be worth checking with bub waking at 5am, the coldest part of the day).

    Day naps - at 11 months I would be aiming for 3-3hr 15 mins of awake time between day naps. Try as best as you can (use distraction etc) to keep bub up close to that mark. Especially for the first morning nap. If bub is put down too early (even because tired) it can reinforce the early rising by continuing to encourage short day naps.

    When is bed time at night?

    Try to cut the third nap. It could be interfering with bubs night sleep if it ends too late (by bub not being tired enough at bed time). Aim for 3-4 hours between the last day nap and night bed time. If needed bring bedtime forward while bub is transitioning out of the third nap (eg 6:30 instead of 7 or 7:30).

    Cut the DF.

    Ditch the dummy. Even if you have extras in the cot for bub to find by the time bub finds them it may be game over. Now it's true dummies *dont always* cause night wakings . But they are bloody notorious for a large number of them. Make sure bub has the exact same cloth comforter at sleep time (regardless of where sleeping) for a minimum of 2 weeks before ditching the dummy. You could try and slowly wean bub off the dummy by wriggling it out of bubs mouth when bub is drowsy but before bub falls asleep.

    Whatever you do keep it up for 2 weeks. Don't go chopping around your bed routine or settling methodology every few nights - babies need consistency. It can take 2 weeks for a change in routine to work.

    From a technique perspective if it were me I would wind back on the cc until you have done these things and have taken bub for a check up (just incase). Give bub a chance to play along on bubs own first/make sure the crying isn't masking something else that can be addressed separately.

    Good luck. Feel free to PM with any additional questions etc happy to help
    Last edited by VicPark; 18-05-2016 at 06:05.

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