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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    So if investors pull out and rents sky rocket what will happen then? How will people be able to afford to rent anything in the city and save for a house deposit?
    Investors won't pull out, they will just stop buying additional properties. Prices will hopefully drop, people will buy, which will reduce the demand for rentals which will reduce rents.

    The reason rent is so ridiculous is bc housing prices are so high.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janesmum123 View Post
    What you want is for house prices to come down so you get to live the lifestyle you want, how you want it and get what you want like a house with little effort. Working hard for a few years is hardly going to kill you. No one says you have to work like that for 10 years. You don't live in Sydney your house price must be much lower.
    Essentially you would rather blame people who are trying to secure their future and their kids future then do something for yourself because God forbid it might hurt a bit.
    I'm not going to get the aged pension, I don't get FTBs, I don't get any family payments or CCB or rent assistance. I pay for private dentists and private schools. I Pay my taxes (yes lots of them even with negative gearing) I will also pay for my children's university education and they will not be entitled to Austsudy or youth allowance.
    I'm trying to secure my kids futures and my own. And the government helps me a little. They are helping you yes? You get rent assistance yes? I'm not complaining your getting help I'm happy for it why are you so upset with is. I could say it's your choice to be a stay at home mum could I not? I could be angry and demand the government not help you because I have to work and it's not fair. But I don't because your life is yours I was just pointing out that maybe just maybe if you changed up your life a little for a little while you might be able to buy.
    Wow. You maybe need to read this back to yourself bc the irony is the same can be said for you. You want everyone to pay for the lifestyle you want as well. It also wouldn't kill you to work more hours if you *choose* to set your kids up, and have private everything instead of using public. God forbid you hurt a bit to pay off all your houses not at the expense of the tax payer. The upper middle class privilege on here is huge.

    Every thing you said here I could turn back to you and say the same to you.

    Anyhoo, I'm struggling to respond to all the responses and clearly upsetting people so I might sneak out the back door lol

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  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Investors won't pull out, they will just stop buying additional properties. Prices will hopefully drop, people will buy, which will reduce the demand for rentals which will reduce rents.

    The reason rent is so ridiculous is bc housing prices are so high.
    I think the issue is that if prices dropped enough to make them affordable then there would be massive impacts on the economy. Then people probably wouldn't be able to buy bc so many would be unemployed.

    But I don't think getting rid of negative gearing would affect prices all that much and they will still be unaffordable.

    I think there needs to be a different solution... Not sure what though!!

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Investors won't pull out, they will just stop buying additional properties. Prices will hopefully drop, people will buy, which will reduce the demand for rentals which will reduce rents.

    The reason rent is so ridiculous is bc housing prices are so high.
    The rents went higher in Sydney in the 80,s when Hawke stopped negative gearing the first time, they quickly bought it back in so I wouldn't guarantee they would reduce - the only way they will reduce is because of demand and I don't believe ( here in Sydney anyway) demand will stop

    Even if prices drop say even 20 or 30% ( they won't) the average mortgage in Sydney will still be around $1000 per week which is still unattainable for a lot of families

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  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Wow. You maybe need to read this back to yourself bc the irony is the same can be said for you. You want everyone to pay for the lifestyle you want as well. It also wouldn't kill you to work more hours if you *choose* to set your kids up, and have private everything instead of using public. God forbid you hurt a bit to pay off all your houses not at the expense of the tax payer. The upper middle class privilege on here is huge.

    Every thing you said here I could turn back to you and say the same to you.

    Anyhoo, I'm struggling to respond to all the responses and clearly upsetting people so I might sneak out the back door lol
    No need to sneak out. I was just pointing out that we both get help from the government in 2 different ways. i don't see the irony I was pointing out the fact. Why be angry at one form of help but not the other. I glad you get help, people on lower incomes should be supported. I just don't understand the hate towards one type of help but not the other.

    Anyway that's all.

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  9. #76
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    Default Housing / negative gearing / politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    So you think it's hilarious that I've lost money on a rental property? Well geez. Thanks.

    How do people just magically 'positively gear' their properties? Oh yeah, I'll just grab the spare cash I have sitting in this other account over here that's I'd forgotten about and move it onto my loan.

    I think you are so out of touch with reality.
    No, I'm not out of touch. Negative gearing benefits investors by reducing their taxable income. If it wasn't benefitting investors then it wouldn't be such a contentious issue and investors wouldn't be up in arms at the thought of it being reduced or abolished or limited to new properties like labor has proposed.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 10-05-2016 at 10:46.

  10. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I find it hilarious that people are going on about "losing money" when their property is negatively geared. Please. Most investors have interest only loans and if it wasn't benefitting them then they would positively gear their properties. Plus once a property is positively geared, accountants advise to "get rid of it"

    There are so many new estates being built in Sydney. Mascot, Botany, Wolli Creek, Hurstville plus many others are going nuts with thousands of new apartments being built and there are thousands of houses being built in the west, north west and south west. My husband is working on the new housing estates out west and he has been working up to 14 hours on some days it is that crazy.
    Most "mum and dad" and long term investors don't have interest only loans ( too risky and banks still require them to be able to prove they can cover principal and interest payments once the interest only term expires )

    All those new apartments are doing is taking some rental stress away as in a few years there will be an abundance of units for rent , it's a quick fix solution the state government bought in ( about 20 years too late) to over rule the local councils , thankfully ( like your DH) it's creating a huge boom in the building industry which is great but families still want houses so in areas like ours it won't decrease demand

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  12. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    Most "mum and dad" and long term investors don't have interest only loans ( too risky and banks still require them to be able to prove they can cover principal and interest payments once the interest only term expires )

    All those new apartments are doing is taking some rental stress away as in a few years there will be an abundance of units for rent , it's a quick fix solution the state government bought in ( about 20 years too late) to over rule the local councils , thankfully ( like your DH) it's creating a huge boom in the building industry which is great but families still want houses so in areas like ours it won't decrease demand
    Yes and so they should which gets back to the point that most investors would need to be earning a lot more than the misleading $80k annual income that gets thrown around by Scott Morrison and the rest.

    Yes, some people still want a backyard and a house in the 'burbs but there are an ever increasing amount of people who wish to live near a train station close to the city in low maintenance properties.

  13. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Investors won't pull out, they will just stop buying additional properties. Prices will hopefully drop, people will buy, which will reduce the demand for rentals which will reduce rents.

    The reason rent is so ridiculous is bc housing prices are so high.
    How much would an average house have to go down in value for the average person to be able to afford it?

    In Sydney metro area, the median house price is $1.2m - $1.6m .. Let's say an average of $1.4m .. This is if you're looking at living anywhere between Hornsby and kogarah, as an example.

    To buy a house in this area (and I'm being generous here with estimates because there really aren't many houses you can buy within 30mins of the CBD for less than $1.6m) you would need a deposit of $280,000 plus around $73,000 stamp duty. Assuming that getting rid of negative gearing reduces Housing prices by even 20% (this is unlikely and extreme, but bare with me..), you would still need 20% of $1.12m ($224,000) and $47,000 stamp duty.. Plus conveyancing costs and other due diligence .. Ok so tell me.. A 20% reduction in housing prices, would this help you be able to afford a house if you're the average Joe trying to buy a house to live in? Probably not. In addition, if you are trying to upsize, sell an existing property to accommodate a growing family or relocate for work, you're going to be screwed. Because you now have a loan on your home that hasn't reduced by 20%, but your equity has..

    The only people who would benefit would be investors who can now buy even cheaper properties and still charge high rents, even higher than before.

    You stated that investors will stop buying additional properties. Why do you think that? As a property investor, the first thing I would do is buy more properties if prices went down. Believe it or not, negative gearing is not the reason people buy investment properties. It's a sweetener, sure, the icing on the cake.. But there are far greater benefits to gearing than getting a tax benefit. I won't bore you with the finance of it all, but as someone who went from being in a large amount of personal debt to having substantial equity in a short time, all without getting any tax benefit, I can tell you that property investment, especially when using debt, is a great way to build wealth, especially for the average person who doesn't have access to other forms of wealth creation and can't afford taking on huge amounts of risk.

    Also, in response to another comment above, about accountants advising their clients to get rid of positively geared properties, as a professional tax accountant myself, I have to disagree with this statement. An accountant who gives that advice is short sighted, inexperienced and has no creativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    So it's not a right to own a house, but those who are privileged enough to own more than one should have the right to negative gearing and capital gains? Rightio. LOL

    And you have said that in the past that you are investing in property to set yourself up for retirement and help your children. I get that as we will be doing the same. But don't make out you're doing some sort of favour or community service to those people who can't afford to buy.
    I have NEVER said I was, nor do I believe that I personally am doing a community service in doing so. But if you had no investors where would people rent? Legitimate question. It's a fact for every (most) investment property, there is a tenant, is there not? Yes if housing was more affordable then a chunk of renters would become home owners, but reducing the number of investors will just not do enough to create more affordable housing.

    I don't have a 'right' to negatively gear an investment property, I don't have a right to a CGD, I see myself as being lucky and that it is a priveledge that I am in the position I can own an investment property (which I actually don't at present). Trust me I count my blessings every single day!

    This is why I get so peeved at the attitude that all investors are super rich greedy bast*r#s who think they're doing a community service.

    It's a fact of the world, there are owner occupiers, investors and renters the world over, not just in Australia because of NG and the CGD.

    And if you've actually paid attention to anything I have said, I have said there needs to be caps on the amount of NG and CGD people are entitled to, not just to protect my own interests but because there are so many positive roll on effects o those things being in place.

    The investment property I once had, when you add up all of the NG tax I got back compared to the amount of tax I paid in capital gains and stamp duty, the government has actually MADE money off me. And it is often the case with many other investors.

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