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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia&Hannah View Post
    Are people who are adamant that private schools should receive no govt funding including the local Catholic/Anglican high schools?

    Certainly I understand the elite 30K+ a year schools getting less funding but my local Catholic primary school charges $800/term. By cutting funding to these schools, yes, there would be an exodus of kids to the local public schools as parents couldn't absorb the costs.
    I also am referring to elite schools. I agree there are loads of small private schools that should get funding

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Did you see my previous post about my experiences working in both public & low fee private schools? It highlights the huge difference in the culture of the schools in my local area. Teachers who dont give a sh!t, bullying, low educational standards. I our low fee private school - resources are absolutely no better than the public school. But th teachers genuinely care & put in 100% effort. Bullying isn't tolerated. Kids achieve to a much higher standard. Parent concerns are taken seriously. Even though the resources are no better, I am paying for the culture of the school. I am paying to send my child to an environment where she is thriving,as opposed to being ignored and bullied & babysat. I know it's not like this everywhere - there are fantastic,amazing public schools, and there are crappy private schools. But this is my experiences as a teacher in MY local area.
    Sorry meant to quote not thank.

    Yes I saw it. But in my mind I separate the attitude of teachers from the resources of the school. Good teachers should be everywhere. Bad teachers and those who hate teaching can also be found in private schools.

    Your scenario is appalling. If those teachers were in private would their attitude really be any different?

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Sorry meant to quote not thank.

    Yes I saw it. But in my mind I separate the attitude of teachers from the resources of the school. Good teachers should be everywhere. Bad teachers and those who hate teaching can also be found in private schools.

    Your scenario is appalling. If those teachers were in private would their attitude really be any different?
    No, but those teachers wouldnt get a look in at my private school - they either wouldnt get the job to start with, or when we hire someone, they start on a 12 month contract & are not given a new contract if they are not a quality teacher. We can hire & fire teachers a lot more easily in the private system, I think. Also, in my school,we are expected to do a LOT more work than these teachers were doing. A low quality teacher is not attracted to a school where there is a lot required of them. High quality teachers are given permanency quickly in the private system, whereas I know people who wait 20years to be given permanency in the public system . It just seems a lot more difficult to attract & then keep good teachers in our local public schools. But overall, it is the culture of the school in general that creates higher quality teachers. An awesome teacher in a school with crappy culture would be dragged down pretty quickly. A lower quality teacher in a school with great culture would have to shape up pretty quickly - it's just not acceptable not to. (I'm talking both public and private - because I've seen great public schools and crappy private schools, too).

    To me,the resources of a school is so low on my priotiry list of what is importabt. I dont care about great resources,I care about great teachers and a great culture, a supportive environment where my child will thrive.
    Last edited by cheeeeesecake; 12-04-2016 at 11:22.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    But why would the costs have to be absorbed by the parents? I really don't understand where the extra $36.5m goes? Surely it doesn't cost that much to run a school.

    I do get that it takes the burden off the public system but look, if the government increased the spending per public school student by $100 per year, to cover costs of new air conditioners, soap, better art supplies, and other things that are lacking, does this mean they would equally have to increase for private school students, just to keep it fair? What would the private schools need it for exactly? I just don't think you can say it's equitable to give everyone the same, when not everyone has the same needs.

    By this token you could say that everyone should receive welfare, everyone should pay the same Tax rate, everyone should be eligible for pretty much anything..

    Maybe the funding for private schools should be means tested - some parents obviously have less income than others. I'm aware that not all parents who send their children to non-government schools are super wealthy. But the ones that are would not pull their kids out for $8000 a year.
    I'm not trying to say it's fair or equitable, just the reality is that if the government cut back funding to private schools to save money and the private schools fee went up as a result, the government might end up spending more on education as it would end up with more public school students (eg my DSSs and DD when she starts school). I totally agree that the more vulnerable students in low SEC areas need more funding and that some schools are grossly underfunded. Cutting back funding to private schools just might not get the result we are looking for.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    No, but those teachers wouldnt get a look in at my private school - they either wouldnt get the job to start with, or when we hire someone, they start on a 12 month contract & are not given a new contract if they are not a quality teacher. We can hire & fire teachers a lot more easily in the private system, I think. Also, in my school,we are expected to do a LOT more work than these teachers were doing. A low quality teacher is not attracted to a school where there is a lot required of them. High quality teachers are given permanency quickly in the private system, whereas I know people who wait 20years to be given permanency in the public system . It just seems a lot more difficult to attract & then keep good teachers in our local public schools. But overall, it is the culture of the school in general that creates higher quality teachers. An awesome teacher in a school with crappy culture would be dragged down pretty quickly. A lower quality teacher in a school with great culture would have to shape up pretty quickly - it's just not acceptable not to. (I'm talking both public and private - because I've seen great public schools and crappy private schools, too).

    To me,the resources of a school is so low on my priotiry list of what is importabt. I dont care about great resources,I care about great teachers and a great culture, a supportive environment where my child will thrive.
    I suppose that's true. I just see on here time and time again people saying the teachers they get at public schools are amazing and do the extras as well.

    I guess that's always the issue with anecdotal arguments. Personal experience differs for everyone.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I suppose that's true. I just see on here time and time again people saying the teachers they get at public schools are amazing and do the extras as well.

    I guess that's always the issue with anecdotal arguments. Personal experience differs for everyone.
    Thats true, and dont get me wrong - there are some amazing public schools with amazing teachers. But I have had the opportunity to work in MY local public schools, so I've seen how terrible they are.

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    My kids school is low SES. We have an excellent Reading Recovery and Gifted programs. We have a school band with instruments and we kick butt at sport. We have lots of teachers aides bc we have quite high numbers of learning disabilities. We have around 4 ipads per classroom as well as computers. Around 4-5 years ago we got several grants being SES for these. We also have a passionate principal and teachers and NAPLANs have continued to improve each year.

    So our school is really case in point here. A low SES school that has blossomed from an injection of funding for more staff, more specialised training in diverse learners and IT/tangible equipment.

  8. #78
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    As a public school teacher I don't see the problem with a public education. Teachers all graduate from the same place. A school without a pool and a tennis court isn't going to disadvantage students.

    Without parents paying for private schools the Government would be forking out just as much money if not more money. And for the people that are saying that people can't afford it... you'd be surprised. I could afford to send my children to a private school yet I don't... why? I don't see the educational benefits compared to a public school... as stated previously... a swimming pool and a tennis court aren't going to make my kids more educated then a school without one... or without all the other fancy crap.

    There are some schools that need to be reviewed because of lack of resources etc and the Government/Education department should be putting money in to fix them up.

    Most people on higher incomes pay a lot more tax as well so why should their kids be deprived of any educational funding? I think each public school needs to get money based on their needs rather than just having money poured into it for the sake of it because it's "equal". I don't think that private schools should necessarily get as much funding as public schools but they should certainly be entitled to some money.



    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Some families can't afford it? And I'm not talking about the stereotypical junkie family who have never worked a day in their lives. That always becomes the convenient example. What about the working poor? Even just middle class families?

    I find it sad but unsurprising that people here support the divide. There is something seriously wrong when a child's family income that they have no control over, controls what level of education they receive.

    I genuinely don't mean to be condesending but do you understand Renesme that kids from really poor schools statistically do much poorer in year 10/HSC, have a lot lower chance of getting into uni? have much higher unemployment? But then the next politics thread people will be whinging about how their or their husband's taxes pay for 'people to sit on the dole'. The irony is so glaring but so often lost. You ( a general you) support the widening gap between rich and poor bc you happen to sit on the privileged side..... then complain when the same households that are getting left behind end up on benefits with no prospects.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    My kids school is low SES. We have an excellent Reading Recovery and Gifted programs. We have a school band with instruments and we kick butt at sport. We have lots of teachers aides bc we have quite high numbers of learning disabilities. We have around 4 ipads per classroom as well as computers. Around 4-5 years ago we got several grants being SES for these. We also have a passionate principal and teachers and NAPLANs have continued to improve each year.

    So our school is really case in point here. A low SES school that has blossomed from an injection of funding for more staff, more specialised training in diverse learners and IT/tangible equipment.
    That is fantastic for your school. But could the headline not also read "Taxpayers fund ipads in classrooms whilst other schools are still without basic airconditioning?"

    I dislike the private vs public drama that thr media try to stir up. Private or public should be irrelevant. The fact that some schools are getting government funding for orchestras or swimming pools or ipads,while other schools still dont have airconditioning,means that someone somewhere (probably the government) is mismanaging funds.

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  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    That is fantastic for your school. But could the headline not also read "Taxpayers fund ipads in classrooms whilst other schools are still without basic airconditioning?"
    Of course! Air con is a basic necessity and the govt (Lib and Labor) should be ashamed that this issue still exists. To be fair, we put in the hard yards and apply for every grant we are applicable for, so it wasn't part of our basic funding.

    But having ipads, which I frankly see as a necessity in this day and age is a world away from swimming pools. Saying that somehow our school is blessed to have them and putting them in the same sentence as pools against those that don't have air con isn't fair or logical. The fact that ipads in a public school seems so amazing really highlights my point here. It shouldn't be amazing it should be standard.

    As a teacher you know the value of these items to bridging the gap for low income families who don't have one at home and the equity issues that exist if schools don't provide a few per classroom.

    I'm not sure I would consider it a 'drama'. It's a very valid discussion about the haves and have nots and whether the tax payer should be funding rich schools that simply don't need it.

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