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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I really don't want to further inflame things however feel I must mention that I just read the mother is a naturopath. May offer an explanation as to why she's relying on google instead of the advice of trained medical professionals.
    I think you are confusing naturopaths who complete a four year degree that encompasses anatomy & physiology, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, pharmacology, etc with wellness bloggers.

    The two couldn't be further apart on the spectrum of research & study. Naturopathy has an incredible amount of validity & yes, evidence based protocols, & can integrate very well with the medical profession. Don't tar a whole industry just because you don't really understand what they do or confuse professionals with online 'health experts'

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  3. #62
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    I've just watched the segment. I can't read the transcript posted for some reason.
    Certainly the 60 minutes program have left out information. And parts are just sensationalised for a good story.
    What I'm struggling to understand is why in this particular case the doctors have decided this is what is best and it went to court. Surely this is a slippery slope. As I've mentioned my DD is medically complicated. We were told that she would need a minimum of 3 surgeries in the first few years of life. And due to the length of those surgeries and the need for heart bypass...lack of oxygen. .. brain damage was high in the list of risks. Not to mention other complications. Also the risk of having a syndrome as well that comes with lots of other difficulties. After those three surgeries it's an unknown quantity - liver and kidney damage. .. PLE...the need for a transplant. ..unable to have children. ..play sports... all sorts of limitations. Plus the possibility of having other genetic issues of which she does. Not to mention the risk of dying. I do know families who lost their children to complications from surgeries the same as my DD's.
    However, the surgeries, which are deemed palliative...are improving and have a pretty good success rate. Though only 10 years ago or so the mortality rate was very high like 90%!
    See - I struggle with the concept that doctors were okay with ending her life inutero or shortly thereafter...even though 'treatments' were available. ...and no one would have stood in our way if we've decided that.
    But in Oshin's case the parents aren't allowed this choice? Is this because it's cancer? Or he's older? Or because they started treatment? I know it's not exactly the same but there are certainly elements of this being this same.

    Whilst I don't agree with their decision as I chose to fight with my daughter for survival. ... and continue to as we head for more surgery. ... I can see why they want to give quality of life to their boy.
    I didn't agree with her saying 'because I just don't understand it'. I'm afraid we don't need to understand it to trust the doctors. I do not understand the intricacies of open heart surgery on a baby. .. I cannot understand how stopping a heart and bringing it back to life can save my daughter. ..but it did. .and it will.
    That rationale the mum shared was confusing.
    I don't know. .just my ramblings on the matter. It's not black and white is it?

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I think you are confusing naturopaths who complete a four year degree that encompasses anatomy & physiology, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, pharmacology, etc with wellness bloggers.

    The two couldn't be further apart on the spectrum of research & study. Naturopathy has an incredible amount of validity & yes, evidence based protocols, & can integrate very well with the medical profession. Don't tar a whole industry just because you don't really understand what they do or confuse professionals with online 'health experts'
    Thank you for that. I would not have explained it as calmy and beautifully as that..

    Also maybe believing any sensationalist journalism from 60 minutes/TT/ACA is as bad as 'googling' information.

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    I've ranted about this on Facebook so I can't be bothered going into great detail here, but in a nutshell I am glad that the doctors intervened.

    My DD has just had 8 months of chemo so I have first hand experience with having a child with cancer. I am dumbfounded by the stupidity of those parents. When you are told your child has cancer, you do everything possible to help them survive! If he was definitely going to die, then I can understand not wanting chemo as it is horrible, but odds of 50-60% survival is pretty good and worth a shot at it.

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    Default 60 minutes: court order treatment for child

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    Also maybe believing any sensationalist journalism from 60 minutes/TT/ACA is as bad as 'googling' information.
    I agree there are risks with both...however I believe the dangers pale in comparison when compared with the dangers of disregarding the advice of trained medical professionals and the opinion of a judge.

    I understand why people are supporting the parents. I just don't agree when that also involves pandering to the fudging of the lines of fact and common sense.

  10. #66
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    I haven't looked into this particular case so am not qualified to comment, but I think court ordered medical intervention is a slippery slope & needs to be very closely monitored.

    There was a case in Australia where an 11 year old child had a cancer with a 100% mortality rate. The parents researched & found out that the chemo the doctors wanted to give their child had a zero success rate with that type of cancer. But the doctors had no other options. The parents wanted to take their daughter overseas to a clinic that offered a slight chance of hope with a low dose chemo combined with other therapies. So the doctors decided that was not ok so they ended up making this child a ward of the state & it went all the way to the Supreme Court where they ruled for chemo even though it had no chance of helping. The little girl had a very bad reaction to the chemo but because it was court ordered the doctors kept going & it killed her. It is a shocking story of what can happen in this country & is detailed in a book called Sarah's Last Wish.

    Not saying this is happening in this case, but it is worth keeping in mind that the child's best interests are not always looked after in our system.

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    This is a horribly heartbreaking situation. Neither choice they've been given is a good option. Both options suck. I honestly can't say what I would choose in the same situation.

    ETA: I have nothing but compassion for every member in the family. They don't deserve the vitriol that has been directed at them. They had to make a decision that had no win, and after making that heartbreaking decision taking all of the factors into consideration (some that doctors surely wouldn't know), doctors decided to fight it, and they were overruled. Doctors often are focused on "fixing" things. This situation can't be fixed.

    Not really comparable, but something that has coloured my views about this story somewhat: My uncle was diagnosed with a terminal brain cancer in late January. We were told he had 12 months if he had surgery and radiation and chemo after. One month without any treatment. He went in for surgery. He has been paralysed down his left side, has some issues with speech and memory, now has issues with eating and drinking (liquids have to be thickened, can only eat mush), has little ability to concentrate for longer than about 5 minutes. His personality has even changed a bit. This is just as a result of the surgery. My uncle loved reading and crossword puzzles. Now he can't really do either. He can't eat the foods he loves or drink a glass of good red wine. Post surgery, they've changed their prognosis to 3 months. It's almost up. He hasn't been and won't be able to go back home. He isn't sure that he would have had the surgery if he could go back and make the decision with what he knows now.

    I am sorry if this wasn't particularly articulate, this hits very close to home for me, and typing through tears is difficult.
    Last edited by Tiny Dancer; 11-04-2016 at 08:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I haven't looked into this particular case so am not qualified to comment, but I think court ordered medical intervention is a slippery slope & needs to be very closely monitored.

    There was a case in Australia where an 11 year old child had a cancer with a 100% mortality rate. The parents researched & found out that the chemo the doctors wanted to give their child had a zero success rate with that type of cancer. But the doctors had no other options. The parents wanted to take their daughter overseas to a clinic that offered a slight chance of hope with a low dose chemo combined with other therapies. So the doctors decided that was not ok so they ended up making this child a ward of the state & it went all the way to the Supreme Court where they ruled for chemo even though it had no chance of helping. The little girl had a very bad reaction to the chemo but because it was court ordered the doctors kept going & it killed her. It is a shocking story of what can happen in this country & is detailed in a book called Sarah's Last Wish.

    Not saying this is happening in this case, but it is worth keeping in mind that the child's best interests are not always looked after in our system.
    What made that case horrid for me is that the girl's family were restricted to just 2 hours of visits a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amyd View Post
    What made that case horrid for me is that the girl's family were restricted to just 2 hours of visits a day.
    Yes it was an absolute tragedy & sickening that it could happen here, even with all the evidence put before the Supreme Court to show that chemo was not going to help that child. And then to ban the parents from seeing her because they fought for her quality of life was inconceivable for both the little girl & her parents. Shocking & sickening.

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    @Summer that book was heartbreaking 😔

    I only caught snippets of the 60 Minutes story and have also read small amounts of news articles, so I don't know too much of the details. Did the mum say that they originally wanted to take Oshin to the US for treatment, or am I imagining that? If that's right, I really feel for them if they were initially blocked from doing so.

    A 50% chance of survival in 5 years time is, in my opinion, a figure absolutely worth fighting for. However, once you add in the other possibilities - brain damage, loss of hearing etc. - I can understand, though not necessarily agree, why they want to forego treatment and instead focus on palliative care.

    Either way, I'd hope that the Doctors' decision to fight the parents and the Judge's ruling were based on the best outcome for Oshin *and* his family. I hope they've got it right and I hope they offer this family support.
    Last edited by atomicmama; 11-04-2016 at 11:56.


 

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