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  1. #51
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    This is the transcript from the court ruling. I think it sums things up, and is a lot less speculative than the newspaper articles. A worthwhile read. (BTW I haven't read anything but the OP post yet - I imagine it will be highly emotive)

    http://www.familycourt.wa.gov.au/_fi...4-Mar-2016.pdf

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaybaby View Post
    This is the transcript from the court ruling. I think it sums things up, and is a lot less speculative than the newspaper articles. A worthwhile read. (BTW I haven't read anything but the OP post yet - I imagine it will be highly emotive)

    http://www.familycourt.wa.gov.au/_fi...4-Mar-2016.pdf
    I've read it. Very difficult to read and not feel like crying for the family.

    I hope the medical profession is there every step of the way to support these people through the next 5 years of sickness and pain.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Funny, I am the opposite. I shake my head when people talk about the "research" they have done on Google. I stick to current medical journals. Usually available also online, but generally subscription required.

    As for Naturopathy...no, I personally don't believe it is valid profession. If others do, and want to see a Naturopath, that's their right. As an adult, one is entitled to bodily autonomy, even if it involves stupid decisions.

    But when it comes to children, the waters are very muddied.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app
    I find the focus on her being a naturopath really unhelpful. Who cares. No one would mention it if she was a lawyer but was trying a range of alternative therapies to try and alleviate her son's pain.

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I find the focus on her being a naturopath really unhelpful. Who cares. No one would mention it if she was a lawyer but was trying a range of alternative therapies to try and alleviate her son's pain.
    Well I think they would. I would.
    Complimentary therapies, fine. Give your child herbal tea from Asia, or whatever it was. In lieu of modern, clinically-evaluated, treatment? No.
    (And I am not talking necessarily about chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Modern treatments in this instance would include steroids, anti-convulsants, anti-emetics, strong pain relief, etc).

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  9. #55
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    Default 60 minutes: court order treatment for child

    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Well I think they would. I would.
    Complimentary therapies, fine. Give your child herbal tea from Asia, or whatever it was. In lieu of modern, clinically-evaluated, treatment? No.
    (And I am not talking necessarily about chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Modern treatments in this instance would include steroids, anti-convulsants, anti-emetics, strong pain relief, etc).

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    It's worth reading the transcript. It discusses her use of complimentary therapies. Sound very much like a last resort (as in they tried everything else first).
    Last edited by Sonja; 11-04-2016 at 00:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Due within a month .... or 50% chance of living for at least another 5 years. I haven't read anything to suggest the poor child will likely have severe brain damage. I honestly don't understand how this is even a choice that is open for debate.
    There was recently a doco series on ABC about kids being treated at Great Ormond St Hospital in London. One episode centred on kids being treated for cancer. I recall one child who had a brain tumour with a poor prognosis, and the doctor was discussing treatment and care options with the parents.

    He told them that, with radiation therapy, there was a low chance of prolonging their child's life. However, he also told them that radiation therapy irreparably damages the brain to the point that, while their daughter may live, she would no longer be the same child.

    He also told them to think carefully when they were making their decision, about whether they were pursuing treatment for their daughter's sake, or their own sake.

    As a parent, it is instinctual to fight for your child's life with every single tool available. Likewise, medical personnel may feel compelled to try absolutely everything possible to prolong life. But that course of action isn't necessarily in the best interests of the child.

    Sometimes the hardest, most selfless, but kindest option is to give these kids a short but good quality life, rather than a slightly longer life filled with fear and pain and trauma.
    Last edited by Gentoo; 11-04-2016 at 00:33.

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  12. #57
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    I think the discussion re the 5yrs survival rate is being interpreted incorrectly. All cancer "cure" rates are based on survival at the 5yr mark. So because this child has been given a 50% chance of survival doesn't mean he is likely to pass away after just 5yrs, but that he has a 50/50 chance of making it to 5yrs and potentially long beyond that...
    As an example, if I was diagnosed with cancer tomorrow and was give a 30% chance of survival, it means that after 5yrs there is a 30% chance I will be alive still after treatment, whatever treatment that may be. It is a medical estimate.
    The survival rate in no way correlates with quality of life, pain or disability at the 5yr mark, that is entirely separate, and not part of the "cure" equation at all. That's not to say all that shouldn't be taken into account of course. Does that make sense?

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full House View Post
    In what universe is calling grieving parents ideologic bleeters not nasty?
    The mum is a naturopath who used google and wanted to give her child a special juice from Asia instead of medical treatment. This lead me to believe she was driven by her own alternative ideology as opposed to fact/reason or even her child.

    Perhaps the ideological bleeter, said in the heat of the moment, was insensitive. Maybe 'a parent with ill informed extreme alternative views' would be better?

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    Default 60 minutes: court order treatment for child

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    Ok. Wow. You went there. How dare you insinuate that being a naturopath means you 'rely on google and not the advice of trained medical professionals'. Are you suggesting the profession is a whole lot of rubbish? What do you think naturopaths do?

    .
    Yes. I don't believe in naturopathy. Certainly not as anything more than a placebo effect (which there is some validity in).

    And I'm not insinuating that all naturopaths ignore medical advice - just this one.
    Last edited by VicPark; 11-04-2016 at 05:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    I always shake my head at anyone who derides Google. I use google every day, as a qualified librarian, to find important information. Google isn't just for LOLcats and conspiracy theories. if you actually know how to search properly it's one of the very best tools of research. Anyone in the top of their field at pretty much anything will find Google a valuable tool.
    The problem is when someone uses it to find obscure information which they use to justify their pre-existing desire to go against trained medical professionals. As with the case of anti-vaxxers google can be a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands.


 

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