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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaybaby View Post
    Hope you're ok TD. Cancer is a horrific thing, which effects that spread far beyond the sufferer...
    I can absolutely see why this would be so difficult for you. Hang in there xx
    Thanks. I probably should have stayed out of the discussion all together. I just really feel for the family, being in an all round terrible situation, with all this added hate being directed at them. It doesn't help anyone, especially not the poor kid at the centre of it all.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I agree completely. My close friend has a child that will never live independent. Her parents life is made up almost entirely of decisions around who will take care of her when they are gone. They even had another baby to make sure the burden didn't fall on their only other child.

    There are massive ranges of disability and it's infuse to say people don't want a disable child because they don't value that child's life. There are so many factors that are relevant.
    Right back at you with agreeing.
    I have a very good idea what a highly dependent disability can be like, so I'm not speaking from a place of the unknown. To assume that I wouldn't value one life as much as another because I may come to a different decision is flippant.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    It is sad, but at the same time I don't think there's anything wrong with being terrified. After all, some disabilities significantly impact the time that you will be caring for your child. It's all well and good to be able to care for them when we're still young ourselves, but it's not so easy once the parents start ageing, and it can be scary to think about who cares for them in the future.
    I understand that too, & I havr close friends with children with severe disabilities. I think our western society just doesnt care for families & children with disabilities as we should. Parents have lost their 'village' of people who help to raise a child,with or without disabilities.
    I have close ties with my local Indian community, & I dont know if @Rose&Aurelia&Hannah's mum would agree, but I find that the Indian community value 'people' so much more than we do. The elderly are respected and honoured, and taken care of, not seen as a burden. Similary, children are seen as a joy snd delight, not a burden. But there is a village mentality, where everyone helps out. Sometimes I feel like I was born into the wrong time or the wrong place, because I dont really 'fit' with our culture with how I see people. I do really feel for the parents, & I'm not criticising them. They must be feeling unimaginable pain right now.

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    VicPark  (11-04-2016)

  5. #94
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    A part of me feels this should be black and white.

    But even my own feelings aren't that way.

    As a parent, I would not want my child to continue with treatment if there is only a 50-60% chance of life for 5 years.
    Equally, as a parent I cannot imagine refusing to treat my sick child.

    Do I think these parents are wrong? NO.

    Do I think the judge is wrong? NO.

    But I do not approve of the doctor's intervening. If it was a 50-60% change of full recovery, awesome go for it. But it wasn't.

    In general, I think this falls under 'parenting decision". Yes, each case is individual. But it is their child.

    Apparently, "your child your choice" only applies some times.

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    Gentoo  (11-04-2016)

  7. #95
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    @DT75 someone said earlier that the 5 years doesn't mean he would only have 5 years to live, but that in 5 years he will still be alive, if that makes sense?

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  9. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT75 View Post
    As a parent, I would not want my child to continue with treatment if there is only a 50-60% chance of life for 5 years.
    .
    But this is incorrect!! They are not saying there is a 50% chance of living for 5yrs - the 5yrs is the "standard term" for all cancer survival probability - they are saying there is a 50% chance the child will be living at 5yrs, and a 50% chance he will be deceased. The continued quoting of the 5yrs years is completely incorrect
    I will give another example - if you have a 30% chance of surviving a particular cancer, this is the same as saying you will have a 30% chance of still being alive at 5yrs, and may well live 6yrs, 15yrs or till your 95yo...
    My neice was given a 60% chance (of being alive at 5yrs) - she survived and is likely to have to full life.
    Quality of life, disability, etc etc are part of a completly different equation - that should be taken into account - but is completely unrelated to the surviavla percentage

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  11. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaybaby View Post
    But this is incorrect!! They are not saying there is a 50% chance of living for 5yrs - the 5yrs is the "standard term" for all cancer survival probability - they are saying there is a 50% chance the child will be living at 5yrs, and a 50% chance he will be deceased. The continued quoting of the 5yrs years is completely incorrect
    I will give another example - if you have a 30% chance of surviving a particular cancer, this is the same as saying you will have a 30% chance of still being alive at 5yrs, and may well live 6yrs, 15yrs or till your 95yo...
    My neice was given a 60% chance (of being alive at 5yrs) - she survived and is likely to have to full life.
    Quality of life, disability, etc etc are part of a completly different equation - that should be taken into account - but is completely unrelated to the surviavla percentage
    I get that. But it is the standard used, so that is what you have to base your decision on.

  12. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I agree there are risks with both...however I believe the dangers pale in comparison when compared with the dangers of disregarding the advice of trained medical professionals and the opinion of a judge.

    I understand why people are supporting the parents. I just don't agree when that also involves pandering to the fudging of the lines of fact and common sense.
    I think it's hard to be so black and white though, common sense can go out the window when faced with such highly emotional decisions.

    This is a really complex scenario and I really think the parents believe they're doing the right thing for their child. I don't think it's fair of this whole debate to dismiss their fears so easily and brand them as stupid. I cannot even imagine the terror of being told I need to radiate my child's brain.

    If it was me, my own personal emotions would probably win out and I'd do anything to save my child. It's not me though, it's not any of us and it's so hard for others to tell those parents they don't know what's best for their own child.

    I hope this story has a happy ending, I really, really do because it's so horribly sad, for all concerned.

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  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    I understand that too, & I havr close friends with children with severe disabilities. I think our western society just doesnt care for families & children with disabilities as we should. Parents have lost their 'village' of people who help to raise a child,with or without disabilities.
    I have close ties with my local Indian community, & I dont know if @Rose&Aurelia&Hannah's mum would agree, but I find that the Indian community value 'people' so much more than we do. The elderly are respected and honoured, and taken care of, not seen as a burden. Similary, children are seen as a joy snd delight, not a burden. But there is a village mentality, where everyone helps out. Sometimes I feel like I was born into the wrong time or the wrong place, because I dont really 'fit' with our culture with how I see people. I do really feel for the parents, & I'm not criticising them. They must be feeling unimaginable pain right now.
    It definitely does take a village, but there are so many factors as to why we don't really have our village anymore. More families have to have both parents working and we often don't just live down the road are the two main things that come to mind.

    It's hard to admit it, but it is a burden. For example, as a sibling, you have to factor in the point where you will have to step up as a carer or guardian when making life decisions. As a parent, you know that there may come a point that your child is going to have a huge responsibility placed on them, and that would be hard to accept.

  15. #100
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    As I work in aged care I have learnt there is one thing worse than death- that is prolonged surviving. I refer to it as surviving as it isn't living at all.
    Why are people so afraid of palliative care? I know there are compassionate, wonderful doctors out there, but there are also others that are more "treatment" focused than "patient" focused - looking short term and treating the disease or illness but not treating the patient as a whole picture.

    I don't know how I'd react if I were in their shoes. All I know is that I should be giving the right to chose if I'm mentally competent to understand and weigh up the facts, risks and possible outcomes.

    Courts intervening when it isn't a clear cut case is a very slippery slope indeed.

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