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  1. #71
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    Default International Women's Day and feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    What job is your husband in? Does it involve shift work/extended hours danger?

    You're a teacher from memory. Unfortunately teachers are paid a pittance. Not saying it's a good thing but it's generally something people know prior to entering training.
    Nope. He works in non-building construction laying conduits in the ground and pulling cable. He has all his tickets (excavator etc) and drives trucks but is not qualified in a trade. He works long hours but gets paid a good hourly rate and is self-employed.

    ETA - I just want to add that in the first 5 or so years, teacher wages aren't that great.

    A full time teacher in NSW on the top pay scale is on almost $96k so not a pittance. It takes a long time to get to the top scale, though and many teachers leave the profession before then.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 09-03-2016 at 18:34.

  2. #72
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    I just did a quick google-
    a teachers average wage in Aus is about $64k
    A civil engineer $71k

    We pay the public servants who make our roundabouts more than those who are teaching the next generation. I wonder why on earth that would be?

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  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Good scenario. I think a lot of women drop out at the senior ranks due to taking time off when their kids are young. You can't maintain currency of skills if you take two years off and you can't manage a workplace if you're part time.
    Not true. When I work part time I am available by phone 24/7 and make myself available for meetings whenever they are required. It's my choice to be part time not anyone else's problem. That's a huge part of the issue. People make assumptions about part time professionals without ever considering the individual and what they are happy to do.

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    Am I feminist? You better bloody believe it!

    First off, everything that @FearlessLeader has said. All of it, she's absolutely hitting the nail on the head. Being, and identifying as a feminist is much, much more than simply 'wanting what men have'. Yes, it involves the pay gap, but it's more. It's about being seen as people, not objects. Rape culture, domestic violence, it's all part of it. Everything from childcare issues, welfare issues, education, employment, the assumptions made of us, having (or not having) children, our appearance, the choices we make in our every day lives. All feminist issues.

    There's a lot of talk of 'choice' in here, but why is the onus of 'choice' always on the woman? A woman *chooses* to stay home with her children. But does she really? Is she really making a full independent choice that is not dependent upon any other factors, or is she "choosing" to stay home because as a woman, it makes better financial sense because generally speaking, her male partner earns more than she does?

    People say things are a choice, but often they are choices made due to greater social issues that make it the only viable choice, therefore, is it *really* a choice?

    Wolf whistles, cat calls, groping, "friend zoning", rape, sexualisation, domestic violence - these things all happen because we live in a society, in a world, where it is acceptable in the minds of many men, for them to treat women like we are only here for there gratification, to serve them. All feminist issues. Women are "asking for it" if they get drunk, wear a short skirt, if they do something their partner doesn't like/approve of. It's always our fault, always victim blaming. These are all issues that make it very important for feminists to exist. These are the issues feminists stand for.

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  8. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    They are not extra measures. Anyone (male or female) who makes certain choices can increase their chances of earning a high income. I don't really believe women have less opportunity in setting up a career for themselves as men. I think a chunk of the pay gap is due to women making choices that set them up for a lower income (extended time off work, not establishing a career before kids, choosing fields that offer lower pay).
    Also, this doesn't explain the disparity between graduate wages in the same field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    How did the friend know she was as equally or better qualified as he make counterpart/s?

    People (of both sexes) at my work moan about not receiving job opportunities as they were the better applicant, yada yada. Sometimes I sit back and think "you have no idea Fred worked on a confidential special project for 2 years that solved XYZ problem." Or "you're not telling the whole picture to your friends... You probably didn't get chosen because of that unacceptable behaviour complaint against you a few years back that proved you couldn't handle pressure."

    I suppose is sometimes people aren't really in a position to know if their application ****s all over the competition.
    Because her boss and HR told her and eventually sorted it out. Took a while though. Plus it would be pretty obvious with qualifications and as for experience you could always ask your colleagues what experience they have. Plus in academia you can determine someones experience by their publications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    So they take into account currency of skills due to taking a few years off?
    Like i said it's not about lifestyle choices. These indiscrepancies happen to women who haven't had kids yet or don't plan on ever having them.

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  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Nope. He works in non-building construction laying conduits in the ground and pulling cable. He has all his tickets (excavator etc) and drives trucks but is not qualified in a trade. He works long hours but gets paid a good hourly rate and is self-employed.

    ETA - I just want to add that in the first 5 or so years, teacher wages aren't that great.

    A full time teacher in NSW on the top pay scale is on almost $96k so not a pittance. It takes a long time to get to the top scale, though and many teachers leave the profession before then.
    Yes and I can imagine that a majority of those at the top are male.

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    Default International Women's Day and feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    And plenty of women saying that taking time off for kids wasn't their actual choice, but a financial necessity?
    Can you see how that sometimes (not always) a woman's 'choices' lead her to a situation where she is earning a lower income than her partner at the time of having kids, which leads to her taking time off work as a 'necessity'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    Where you say unfortunately I say 'why?' Why are teachers paid so poorly, when they perform an essential task, and are extremely highly skilled (I know of few other professions where it is so important to continue studying and learning that are so poorly paid)
    It's not even a case of them being public servants- private school teachers aren't paid much better on the whole.
    So why is it so poorly paid? Because it's considered women's work.
    Instead of constantly throwing personal responsibility back on people, which isn't actually going to improve the situation for ALL women (and really just means women continue to have to make MORE sacrifices than men, as well as work harder), why don't we actually try to change the way we view 'women's work' and pay a comparable wage for those jobs?
    This is true! If "women dominated fields" were male dominated, I'd bet my right arm those industries would come with a higher pay.

    The vast majority of industries considered "women's work" fall within arts/humanities. Because women are deemed caring and nurturing by nature. We are heavily involved in 'fluff' industries, not the 'hard' industries like science, maths, engineering etc because they have long been "men's work".

    It can't be hard to realise that male dominated industries come with higher pay, because they *are* male dominated industries.
    Last edited by Lillynix; 09-03-2016 at 18:40.

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