+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 202
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2,377
    Thanks
    1,504
    Thanked
    883
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    I don't really understand your arguments about not identifying as feminist. Some people are just lazy and want someone else to pay the bills- yes some women but also some men.
    The digs about men not being able to do things/multitask make me cringe too, and probably make many other feminists cringe. Gender stereotypes aren't helpful to feminism.
    Your last paragraph is interesting- yes some women make that choice, but it is a far easier choice for a woman to make than a man, and it's a far easier choice for a woman to make than to be the primary breadwinner.
    What you perhaps aren't considering is how all of these things fit into the larger system of patriarchy. You are talking about individuals where I am more interested in the system that assigns particular gender roles such as- men are dominant, more able to control their emotions, more interested in work, less able to multitask and take on caring roles etc- and vice versa for women. Dismantling the patriarchy means that EVERYONE- Men and women- will be able to have REAL choice and will be able to be their true selves to a far higher degree than they can today. So women who choose to stay at home can, and so can men. And women who choose to climb the corporate ladder can, and so can men.
    I guess my opinion (opinion only because I haven't read any studies etc) is that I don't really see a system that's stopping women from achieving their goals. If women choose to work part time or be home with their kids isn't that something they have discussed with their partner and is a joint decision ? and if because they collectively make that choice for their family then it can't really be blamed on society or the system.
    In terms of the pay difference in undergraduate pay, is that comparing against the same degree/field of work? Reason I ask is because there are some fields which are male dominant eg engineering, which would have higher paid graduates. Where I work they are wanting to encourage more females to take up science and engineering degrees to bridge the gap. This is great I have no problem with that. However if women actually don't want to choose these subjects and are just not enrolling then you can't say that it's because there is gender inequality.
    I know I cannot always articulate myself very well and I have probably confused feminism with gender stereotypes. I just feel that in today's society (in australia) women have lots of opportunity they just need to want it and go for it.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jontu For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (09-03-2016),babyno1onboard  (09-03-2016),Papillon  (09-03-2016)

  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    7,836
    Thanks
    5,052
    Thanked
    4,437
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 17/4/15100 Posts in a week

    Default International Women's Day and feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by Jontu View Post
    I guess my opinion (opinion only because I haven't read any studies etc) is that I don't really see a system that's stopping women from achieving their goals. If women choose to work part time or be home with their kids isn't that something they have discussed with their partner and is a joint decision ? and if because they collectively make that choice for their family then it can't really be blamed on society or the system.
    In terms of the pay difference in undergraduate pay, is that comparing against the same degree/field of work? Reason I ask is because there are some fields which are male dominant eg engineering, which would have higher paid graduates. Where I work they are wanting to encourage more females to take up science and engineering degrees to bridge the gap. This is great I have no problem with that. However if women actually don't want to choose these subjects and are just not enrolling then you can't say that it's because there is gender inequality.
    I know I cannot always articulate myself very well and I have probably confused feminism with gender stereotypes. I just feel that in today's society (in australia) women have lots of opportunity they just need to want it and go for it.
    I agree with all of that, which is what I poorly explained in my post. There is no way in hell in Australia they have a graduate program for graduates of the same degree to perform the exact same roles where they will pay a female less than the male (well if they do they wouldn't have a leg to stand on when brought to the attention of the equal opportunities tribunal). I think there is a lot of sensationalism going on with these sorts of comments.

    But I do agree that the opportunities open to those graduates once they're finished their programs *may* differ if said female graduate and said male graduate go on to apply for higher positions for reasons that the male *may* assert himself more than the female and this end up with more opportunities. It is here I believe we can influence women to learn how to be assertive, forget the gender stereotypes and move up in their careers.

    But kind of like jontu says, women who choose to have children and who choose to take time off work, go back part time or not at all which impacts on their career prospects (it certainly has mine!), but unfortunately until men are able to have babies and be able to breastfeed them, this responsibility, for the first year at least falls on the female.

    I could have chosen to put my kids into Childcare full time or to get a nanny and my career wouldn't have suffered like it has, but I've chosen to be part time and be there for my kids a couple of days a week still. Again my lack of career prospects currently falls on my decision to have a family and not work full time - nothing to do with inequality there.
    Last edited by A-Squared; 09-03-2016 at 06:41.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to A-Squared For This Useful Post:

    Jontu  (09-03-2016)

  5. #23
    FearlessLeader's Avatar
    FearlessLeader is offline Winner 2013 - Most Memorable Thread
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    10,724
    Thanks
    2,498
    Thanked
    9,116
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jontu View Post
    I guess my opinion (opinion only because I haven't read any studies etc) is that I don't really see a system that's stopping women from achieving their goals. If women choose to work part time or be home with their kids isn't that something they have discussed with their partner and is a joint decision ? and if because they collectively make that choice for their family then it can't really be blamed on society or the system.
    In terms of the pay difference in undergraduate pay, is that comparing against the same degree/field of work? Reason I ask is because there are some fields which are male dominant eg engineering, which would have higher paid graduates. Where I work they are wanting to encourage more females to take up science and engineering degrees to bridge the gap. This is great I have no problem with that. However if women actually don't want to choose these subjects and are just not enrolling then you can't say that it's because there is gender inequality.
    I know I cannot always articulate myself very well and I have probably confused feminism with gender stereotypes. I just feel that in today's society (in australia) women have lots of opportunity they just need to want it and go for it.
    There most definitely is a system stopping women from reaching their goals. As I said in a previous post, female graduates in the exact same field, coming from the exact same universities are paid less than their male counterparts. This is for a range of complex reasons that have noting to do with choice and little to do with merit.
    As for many women choosing to stay home with their kids- for some that is a choice, for some it's a necessity. For us it wasn't financially viable for me to return to work full time.
    Also, the system (patriarchy) teaches girls and boys from a very young age that women are supposed to stay at home and men are supposed to be the breadwinners. Girls play with dolls, boys play with trucks. When they display this gender appropriate behaviour it is reinforced by outside praise and other adult's subtle behaviour.
    As they grow older, girls get it rammed in that they are meant to procreate (when will you guys have a baby? Is asked of women way way more than it is asked of young men) and also that they are meant to stay home and care for the children ('how long will you take off work? Is asked of men almost never- and if it is, people mean how many days, not how any months). Being a stay at home mum (at least for a while) is presented as the best possible option for women and not even really considered an option for men- because of a lifetime of social conditioning. We will stop needing feminism when the choices men and women can and do make are TRULY equal.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to FearlessLeader For This Useful Post:

    AdornedWithCats  (09-03-2016),atomicmama  (09-03-2016),Lillynix  (09-03-2016),Marshy68  (09-03-2016),smallpotatoes  (09-03-2016)

  7. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,647
    Thanks
    15,089
    Thanked
    11,255
    Reviews
    14
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 postsRuby Star - 15,000 postsDiamond Star - 20,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the WeekBusiest Member of the Week - week ended 5/2/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 31/10/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 24/10/14Busiest Member of the Week
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    March 8th is International Women's Day; a day to celebrate how far we've come, and a day to bring to the spotlight how far we still have to go.

    Unfortunately, it's also a day that people say we don't need; that women are equal and feminism is a load of rubbish. I'm disappointed when I hear that from women.
    So, I'm curious, do you identify as a feminist? If not, why not?
    No I do not identify myself as a feminst. Yes I know on this forum this is a very unpopular view. There was once a thread on here that their was 6 pages of people calling me the nastiest of names because I don't call myself a feminist. The anger and disgust demonstrated to women who don't identify as feminist is a part of the reason I could never identify as one.

    Do I think we need feminist. Hell yes. We need people from all different mindsets. Do I support some accepts of feminism. Yes. I just don't identify as one myself.
    I raise my children to be whatever they to be. So far I have raised 2 very firm feminist.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LoveLivesHere For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (09-03-2016),Elijahs Mum  (09-03-2016)

  9. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    10,294
    Thanks
    3,115
    Thanked
    6,304
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    I suppose I am a feminist but I've been lucky in my life/career as I've never had any problems with working or advancing my career as a woman or ever really experienced any negativity because I'm a woman - my parents raised all of us to be independent so we all bought property young and are all in our own businesses , we never were taught that women were to stay home and have babies ( I had DS at 39) , I've been working for myself for close to now 20 years, my current office is mainly women and I've never experienced pay inequality in our industry - I chose to not work much for the last 5 years and could have made a lot more money if I did but I was lucky I had the choice

  10. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,689
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    This is not what feminists are suggesting. The pay disparity is a complex issue. Men get paid more because they get more opportunities, more mentoring, feel more entitled and can concentrate on higher pay above other things like flexibility..
    Totally agree. I think addressing root issues is needed as opposed to making simplistic (and IMO unhelpful) comments that everyone should receive the same pay (not saying anyone here has done that or that feminists en masses propose that).

  11. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,689
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    We're discussing feminism, not communism.
    Maybe throw-the-hammer-down responses like this are why some women aren't don't feel comfortable identifying as a feminist?.

  12. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    9,874
    Thanks
    3,040
    Thanked
    5,845
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Awards:
    100 Posts in a week
    Yes, I identify with feminist beliefs. Very much so.

  13. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    6,028
    Thanks
    5,464
    Thanked
    4,399
    Reviews
    20
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Maybe throw-the-hammer-down responses like this are why some women aren't don't feel comfortable identifying as a feminist?.
    Because your comment is yet another misconception that I read yesterday. Feminism isn't about wanting the same reward as someone that works harder, but wanting the same opportunity to work as hard and be paid accordingly.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to atomicmama For This Useful Post:

    AdornedWithCats  (09-03-2016),Bongley  (11-03-2016),Gentoo  (09-03-2016),Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (09-03-2016),sparklebug  (09-03-2016)

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    438
    Thanks
    1,246
    Thanked
    245
    Reviews
    0

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Ashram For This Useful Post:

    AdornedWithCats  (09-03-2016),atomicmama  (09-03-2016),Bongley  (11-03-2016),FearlessLeader  (09-03-2016),sparklebug  (09-03-2016)


 

Similar Threads

  1. International clinics
    By dragonflyblu in forum Egg Donation
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 05-03-2016, 05:01
  2. International traveling egg donors
    By Daddy dreams Melbourne in forum Egg Donation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-11-2015, 12:32
  3. International Bereaved Mothers Day
    By MaximumStarlight in forum Pregnancy Loss Support
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-05-2015, 09:30

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Fridge-To-Go Australasia
Xmas with a NEW Fridge-to-go Lunch Bag! Fridge-To-Go Australasia
Fridge-to-go 8 hour cooler bags are ideal under the Christmas tree! Now in modern lunch bag designs - fill them with toys and chocolate to make parents and kids happy! Stay super cool and eat healthy and fresh food all summer long!
sales & new stuffsee all
Pea Pods
Buy 2 Award Winning Pea Pods Reusable One Size Nappies for only $38 (in your choice of colours) and receive a FREE roll of Bamboo Liners. Don't miss out, we don't usually have discounts on the nappies, so grab this special offer!
Special Offer! Save $12
featured supporter
Impressionable Kids
Impressionable Kids are Australia's leader in framed children's memorabilia and specialise in framed baby hand and feet sculptures. With franchise locations throughout Australia you can be assured you will receive a quality handmade product with a lifetime warranty on all frames.
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!