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  1. #171
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    In relation to paying for dinner and perceived double standards - and this is just my personal stance I don't know how others feel. Sometimes equality in a relationship doesn't need to be tit for tat absolutely everything down the middle. I make DH coffee every morning without fail, he rarely makes me one. That one action alone (or absence of action) doesn't make him misogynist or me down trodden. Bc he mows the lawn, even though I can do it and have done it, he doesn't want stones to hit me. He buys me flowers, I very rarely buy him any but I regularly cook him romantic dinners. We have a very equal, respectful relationship.

    I'm not sure if I've made any sense in that but I know what I mean

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    She didn't say she had to work harder. But seeing as you mention it, when going for jobs and promotions, you need to work harder than all of your competition, whether you're male or female and whether your competition is male or female, you (generally) don't get anywhere by being lazy!
    You're right, I didn't say I had to work harder but I actually did have to work harder. Well it seemed that anyway.

  4. #173
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    I was going to come on a say something really insightful, but after spending most of my day designing a sewer (that needs to run without electricity, avoid flood zones and cross a major road without disrupting traffic during construction) I really can't be bothered.

    Yes I am a feminist. I know for a fact that I have been paid less for doing exactly the same job as a male colleague. To get where I am I have had 'choices' but really I shouldn't have had to fight to get there. I shouldn't have to justify being an amazing mum and also female engineer (with a law degree), who still has a career, but apparently my choices in life still need to be justified.

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  6. #174
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    That's the thing. Women have to justify their place in a workplace. It is assumed if a man gets a job he has already proved/justified himself.
    Last edited by AdornedWithCats; 09-03-2016 at 23:13.

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  8. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    Ladies - have confidence in yourself and go get what you want. Take charge and don't leave your happiness in the hand of others.
    I had a very successful pre kids career. I have always been considered "ballsy" (aka aggressive, unfeminine etc) in my career. I have worked hard for pay rises and I have experienced direct and indirect discrimination due to my gender along the way. But I never let my genitals stop me from getting what I wanted.

    After kids though it became so obvious how things are just not set up to support women's career continuity. No one ever asks my husband where the kids go when he is at work, I have been asked this at least once a week for the past 8 years! When I tried to return to my old career (retail sales management) it quickly became apparent that either DH or I would need to change careers as childcare hours could not work for us both doing out-of-normal hours. Yes, I could have pushed my husband to change careers. Yes, I could have fought with my employer while pregnant with my first to offer me part time (they refused at 24 weeks and will only take full time staff). Yes, I could have fought for lots of things and I could still be fighting.

    But you know what, I'm 40 now, I've been in paid employment of some form for 25 years and I am freaking sick of effing having to fight tooth and nail just for the basics. I'm sick of my husband leaving the bulk of domestic duties to me regardless of the hours I work or wage I am paid because that is what is 'normal' for most couples we know in real life (across 3 states, city and country). I am sick of having my work choices versys childrearing questioned constantly.

    I'm just freaking sick if it. And so I "choose" my lower paid job (teaching) because it is a "family friendly" industry. I "choose" to give up my evenings and weekends doing unpaid overtime marking, preparing and planning. I "choose" a job with little career advancement prospects unless I am willing to work 70 hour weeks. I choose all this because I have essentially given up fighting, constantly freaking fighting.

    And this is why I am a feminist. Because I don't want my daughter or my son's partner (if female) to have to fight!

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  10. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I had a very successful pre kids career. I have always been considered "ballsy" (aka aggressive, unfeminine etc) in my career. I have worked hard for pay rises and I have experienced direct and indirect discrimination due to my gender along the way. But I never let my genitals stop me from getting what I wanted.

    After kids though it became so obvious how things are just not set up to support women's career continuity. No one ever asks my husband where the kids go when he is at work, I have been asked this at least once a week for the past 8 years! When I tried to return to my old career (retail sales management) it quickly became apparent that either DH or I would need to change careers as childcare hours could not work for us both doing out-of-normal hours. Yes, I could have pushed my husband to change careers. Yes, I could have fought with my employer while pregnant with my first to offer me part time (they refused at 24 weeks and will only take full time staff). Yes, I could have fought for lots of things and I could still be fighting.

    But you know what, I'm 40 now, I've been in paid employment of some form for 25 years and I am freaking sick of effing having to fight tooth and nail just for the basics. I'm sick of my husband leaving the bulk of domestic duties to me regardless of the hours I work or wage I am paid because that is what is 'normal' for most couples we know in real life (across 3 states, city and country). I am sick of having my work choices versys childrearing questioned constantly.

    I'm just freaking sick if it. And so I "choose" my lower paid job (teaching) because it is a "family friendly" industry. I "choose" to give up my evenings and weekends doing unpaid overtime marking, preparing and planning. I "choose" a job with little career advancement prospects unless I am willing to work 70 hour weeks. I choose all this because I have essentially given up fighting, constantly freaking fighting.

    And this is why I am a feminist. Because I don't want my daughter or my son's partner (if female) to have to fight!
    I felt like "thanking" this post wasn't quite enough. You've summed up my sentiments exactly, I kept going away and coming back to try summarising my thoughts and experience but you've pretty much done it all!

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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I had a very successful pre kids career. I have always been considered "ballsy" (aka aggressive, unfeminine etc) in my career. I have worked hard for pay rises and I have experienced direct and indirect discrimination due to my gender along the way. But I never let my genitals stop me from getting what I wanted.

    After kids though it became so obvious how things are just not set up to support women's career continuity. No one ever asks my husband where the kids go when he is at work, I have been asked this at least once a week for the past 8 years! When I tried to return to my old career (retail sales management) it quickly became apparent that either DH or I would need to change careers as childcare hours could not work for us both doing out-of-normal hours. Yes, I could have pushed my husband to change careers. Yes, I could have fought with my employer while pregnant with my first to offer me part time (they refused at 24 weeks and will only take full time staff). Yes, I could have fought for lots of things and I could still be fighting.

    But you know what, I'm 40 now, I've been in paid employment of some form for 25 years and I am freaking sick of effing having to fight tooth and nail just for the basics. I'm sick of my husband leaving the bulk of domestic duties to me regardless of the hours I work or wage I am paid because that is what is 'normal' for most couples we know in real life (across 3 states, city and country). I am sick of having my work choices versys childrearing questioned constantly.

    I'm just freaking sick if it. And so I "choose" my lower paid job (teaching) because it is a "family friendly" industry. I "choose" to give up my evenings and weekends doing unpaid overtime marking, preparing and planning. I "choose" a job with little career advancement prospects unless I am willing to work 70 hour weeks. I choose all this because I have essentially given up fighting, constantly freaking fighting.

    And this is why I am a feminist. Because I don't want my daughter or my son's partner (if female) to have to fight!
    This x 1000
    @FearlessLeader I have been enthusiastically nodding along with every point you've made & @Stretched this is a brilliant summary of the embedded culture we live in that doesn't support equality. We shouldn't have to fight so hard, this is essentially what feminism is all about, calling out those deeply held beliefs that support a continued patriachal society when it is in desperate need of change.

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  14. #178
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    I've been reading along with this thread trying to decide where I stand.
    I work in an industry where we all get paid the same. ..teaching. In primary school men are often given jobs over women because there are so few male teachers and they are sought after! I call it the p3nis club.
    I don't find men the issue in teaching. .I find women the problem. Them backstab and use you. .pretend to be a friend/colleague to climb the ladder so to speak.
    When I met my DH i5 was at the top of the teaching pay scale...which pretty much happens after 10 or so years of teaching. He worked in HR and earned good money. (Redundancy ruined that though).
    If we'd not decided to have a baby I'm sure my career would look a lot different.
    And the plan was to return to work after ppl and lsl and maternityleave. But DD was born with a disability so life didn't go to plan.
    That said. .. I'm now choosing to be at home and study. .. while looking after her. I don't mind cleaning and cooking. My DH leaves at 430/5am to get to work and gets home at 6ish. It's a long day. If I do these things it affords us family time on the weekends. I guess it looks a bit traditional in that sense.
    Because I've never experienced pay discrepancy and inequality in that sense first hand it's hard to render an opinion - BUT I do think that if you are in the same job. .same skils...same experience. .pay should be equal. No question.
    I don't think we should down play the millions of women who choose to be a SAHM. .. because they want to. The mothering instinct can be strong in many and this is what they dream to do.
    Eg. I have a friend I've known since we were 17. She's just always wanted to be a mum and a stay at home wife. She worked for a bit but now has 3 kids and her hubby works. She's a SAHM and that is what makes her happy.

    The things that bother me is the stalling career while up you have babies. ..and the lack of super contributions you don't have. Should anything happen. But I don't think there's anything that can be done about this.

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  16. #179
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    Default International Women's Day and feminism

    I know this is a only a small example, but again talks of a greater gender issue.

    I called the real estate agent that we purchased our land through a couple of years ago (we have dealt with him a few times now, so have a good relationship) asking about pricing & getting our land revalued as we've done a lot of work on it since purchasing. We had a good chat about it & then he went away & did some research, walked the land to see the changes, did up an estimate, and then...

    Called my husband to tell him the estimated value. No call to me.

    Being overlooked or ignored in business dealings has happened to me more times than I can count. I could give hundreds of examples. It's not only rude, but is insulting & the older I get the more it p!sses me off.

    I know in this thread a lot of issues have come up about work / child-rearing / household as they rightly should. But one of the biggest hurdles I think that undermines everything is the stereotyping of women in the media. It is so insidious & pervasive that we hardly even realize how damaging it is, & how much the media informs our cultural standards.

    Has anyone seen the movie MissRepresentation? That was brilliant in highlighting this issue.
    Last edited by Summer; 10-03-2016 at 07:59.

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  18. #180
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    How does everyone suggest we go about changing this? I suppose my only disagreement with many points is the extent to which these problems exist and I hope we can agree to disagree.

    I hear a lot of passion and knowledge in this thread, how is everyone going about changing these attitudes? Is anyone else in any gender equality boards, participate in any gender equality programs or forums?

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