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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post
    It's definitely a good opportunity to bring attention to the issue and educate more people, and I hope it's a positive outcome to a negative situation, but it's more the direct flaming of Alice Kunek that I disagree with. Especially given she has apologised and clarified that she didn't intend for it to be a racial issue. As I said earlier, she was emulating a particular celebrity's appearance, easy mistake (in my opinion).
    I agree with you. I don't think flaming her is useful.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful1986 View Post
    It's actually not okay for people to dress up as Indians, not sure why you thought self-aware people would find it acceptable?

    Cleopatra was white, I believe.

    I'm also not understanding why you would think her comment was bullying? What was bullying-like about it?

    Plus, yes what the other girl was dressed as was racist, too if we go into that. Her outfit was an outfit relating to Dia De Muertos, a special event for and by Mexican people (Day of the Dead). It's just people aren't as aware of that...here especially. That is opening up another can of worms for this thread as well.

    I'm not really sure how many people can say before others understand. It's not that she dressed up as Kanye. It's that she went in black face.
    I'm genuinely curious here, not looking to start an argument

    Why is it not ok for people to dress up as Mexicans, Native Americans, etc? I've gone to parties dressed in German and Indian attire. I really didn't think it was offensive?

  4. #63
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    I think the outrage was justified. I know it seemed like too much, but look at Hey Hey It's Saturday and the girl who had an Africa themed birthday party and had guests, not only in black face, but some dressed in KKK hoods (really, wth does that have to do with Africa?). It keeps happening. That's why people keep cracking it. And the teammate who openly chastised her said she's had to deal with that sort of rubbish again and again throughout her career and growing up.

    I don't believe she was entirely unaware. It's just damage control.

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful1986 View Post
    I think the outrage was justified. I know it seemed like too much, but look at Hey Hey It's Saturday and the girl who had an Africa themed birthday party and had guests, not only in black face, but some dressed in KKK hoods (really, wth does that have to do with Africa?). It keeps happening. That's why people keep cracking it. And the teammate who openly chastised her said she's had to deal with that sort of rubbish again and again throughout her career and growing up.

    I don't believe she was entirely unaware. It's just damage control.
    That's the thing, though... Many people are unaware. Everywhere that I have seen this discussion, there are several people asking why it's wrong and asking what black face means.

    Dressing as the KKK is a whole different kettle of fish. You would have to live under a rock to not know what they are, in which case you wouldn't dress as one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful1986 View Post
    Because it's so ingrained in our society? Because some people still do black face today and still claim that it wasn't racist? Because I've seen people wear swastikas and STILL claim they are not racist. Because people literally choose to be ignorant rather than ask themselves if they are part of the problem. That's the issue. Racism is much, much more complicated than what you described it as.

    And your pregnancy example is a false equivalency. You cannot compare systemic oppression to a pregnancy, sorry.
    Yeah sorry, I disagree. I was using it as an example when you said intention is irrelevant. I think you're fighting a losing battle here, you're not going to change people's opinions.

  9. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotdog View Post
    Yeah sorry, I disagree. I was using it as an example when you said intention is irrelevant. I think you're fighting a losing battle here, you're not going to change people's opinions.
    What's your point? What do you disagree with?

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    What's your point? What do you disagree with?
    The last paragraph, referring to pregnancy... I think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    I'm genuinely curious here, not looking to start an argument

    Why is it not ok for people to dress up as Mexicans, Native Americans, etc? I've gone to parties dressed in German and Indian attire. I really didn't think it was offensive?
    No problem

    If you were to dress in German attire, that's fine (as long as it isn't relating to the Holocaust because, well, genocide and one of the worst things to have happened in history against the Jewish people, specifically and all that). Not to mention Jewish people still face persecution today and there is still a lot going on in Europe currently, although I'm not familiar with the details at the moment.

    Okay, so this is kind of complicated, but I'll try and keep it short.

    Dressing in clothing belonging to a specific culture that has a deep significance to the group that owns that clothing or item, takes away the meaning that that clothing or item signifies. For example, the Indian headdress (warbonnets) were given to men who had earned the respect of people in their tribe. Only the most powerful and brave men were allowed to wear them. The feather in the warbonnet was given every time the man did a brave act. It has to be earned. So it's understandable why Native Americans get upset when white people (or anyone not Native American to be honest), slaps in on their head like it's nothing. That compared to how Native Americans are still treated...it's pretty gross.

    Basically, when you wear something of cultural significance as a costume, it takes the meaning out if it. Whether a person intends malice or not, it's insensitive. The same concept is applied to Aboriginal people. It's best not to dress as an Aboriginal person because the history is so disturbing, regardless of whether you "respect" the culture or not. Sometimes respect means admiring from a distance. It's all about history and meaning.

    Dressing up as a white person, character or celebrity is fine. Because there is no oppression there.
    Last edited by hopeful1986; 23-02-2016 at 15:40.

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  13. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotdog View Post
    Yeah sorry, I disagree. I was using it as an example when you said intention is irrelevant. I think you're fighting a losing battle here, you're not going to change people's opinions.
    Losing battle? I'm not losing anything when I have spent so much time actually learning about this topic. And even if I make one person think twice, I'm happy chappy.
    Last edited by hopeful1986; 23-02-2016 at 15:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful1986 View Post
    No problem

    If you were to dress in German attire, that's fine (as long as it isn't relating to the Holocaust because, well, genocide and one of the worst things to have happened in history against the Jewish people, specifically and all that). Not to mention Jewish people still face persecution today and there is still a lot going on in Europe currently, although I'm not familiar with the details at the moment.

    Okay, so this is kind of complicated, but I'll try and keep it short.

    Dressing in clothing belonging to a specific culture that has a deep significance to the group that owns that clothing or item, takes away the meaning that that clothing or item signifies. For example, the Indian headdress (warbonnets) were given to men who had earned the respect of people in their tribe. Only the most powerful and brave men were allowed to wear them. The feather in the warbonnet was given every time the man did a brave act. It has to be earned. So it's understandable why Native Americans get upset when white people (or anyone not Native American to be honest), slaps in on their head like it's nothing. That compared to how Native Americans are still treated...it's pretty gross.

    Basically, when you wear something of cultural significance as a costume, it takes the meaning out if it. Whether a person intends malice or not, it's insensitive. The same concept is applied to Aboriginal people. It's best not to dress as an Aboriginal person because the history is so disturbing, regardless of whether you "respect" the culture or not. Sometimes respect means admiring from a distance. It's all about history and meaning.

    Dressing up as a white person, character or celebrity is fine. Because there is no oppression there.
    This is also why it can be offensive for a non indigenous person to play a didgeridoo.

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