+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 70 of 70
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,848
    Thanks
    6,200
    Thanked
    16,892
    Reviews
    10
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 postsRuby Star - 15,000 postsDiamond Star - 20,000 posts
    Awards:
    Bubhub Blogger - Thanks100 Posts in a week
    I really appreciate you being able to accept a different POV that you didn't previously hold. I personally believe it's mainly nature and have found myself frustrated by some of the sleep threads and the innuendo that those with crappy sleepers are somehow doing something wrong.

    So while you and I never the twain will meet on sleep issues (I strongly dislike sleep training) I do genuinely appreciate the sentiment VP

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to delirium For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),VicPark  (20-02-2016)

  3. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,060
    Thanks
    1,930
    Thanked
    1,488
    Reviews
    12
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Thanks for sharing the article @VicPark. There's some parts in it that I really appreciate.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BettyV For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),VicPark  (20-02-2016)

  5. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,109
    Thanks
    1,604
    Thanked
    2,085
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia&Hannah View Post
    An example is that I TT my kids early around 15-18mths. It is a process but I'd rather not have my kids in nappies at 2yo. That's my personal preference. Doesn't mean I log on and tell other parents TT that bar medical issues their kid should be TT by now? No. I offer support and what worked for me. Many on the hub would disagree with my TT and tell me that "it's too early", "wait till their ready" and that's OK. I can choose to ignore it.
    Vicpark, I used to read your sleep advice when you had one child and think "just wait til your second comes". While he has been successfully sleep trained, I observed that the journey to get there had to be modified from your first. And I saw you grow in your opinions on sleep based on this, which I admire.

    RAH, I now read you talking about early toileting and have almost the same thought (but more "wait til you have a boy" ) . Early toileting was fantastic with my daughter, starting at 10m, out of day nappies as 21m. But my son just didn't want to dance to the beat of that drum!

    I think the sentiment of the article applies to almost all areas of human development. We can and should try a variety of methods but, at the end of the day, sometimes you just have to accept that it is how your child just is.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Stretched For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),babyno1onboard  (20-02-2016),binnielici  (20-02-2016),nh2489  (20-02-2016),Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (20-02-2016)

  7. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    At the beach
    Posts
    10,495
    Thanks
    1,430
    Thanked
    9,003
    Reviews
    3
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 17/10/14100 Posts in a week

    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia&Hannah View Post
    I agree with PP. It's statements about "unless medical conditions" "give more solids" "boob/dummy/patting are negative sleep association" that get people including me cranky.

    It makes it sound like we as parents are not trying hard enough. That we are failures. I am not a failure as a parent. I'm a bloody good .
    Just picking up on this. Maybe j'm getting less prickly as t kids get older and I'm not in the trenches of sleep deprivation. Still exhausted mind, but more because of having 4 kids working etc rather than specifics of sleep.

    I personally think sometimes we need to not think every comment is an attack on our parenting. Lots of people think those things like patting and dummies etc are "negative sleep associations". If someone asks for advice on sleep and a poster says that I think that's ok. It's a common view. I may think they're a numpty for thinking that and am entitled to disagree, but I think often the threads get derailed over these sorts of comments. Which isn't helpful at all to the OP who is asking for help.

    I'm trying harder to let stuff like that wash. But yeah the medical comment has always riled me up but I think we may now have finally left that behind.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sonja For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),TheGooch  (20-02-2016),VicPark  (20-02-2016)

  9. #65
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    7,845
    Thanks
    5,061
    Thanked
    4,446
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 17/4/15100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia&Hannah View Post
    I agree with PP. It's statements about "unless medical conditions" "give more solids" "boob/dummy/patting are negative sleep association" that get people including me cranky.

    It makes it sound like we as parents are not trying hard enough. That we are failures. I am not a failure as a parent. I'm a bloody good one.

    An example is that I TT my kids early around 15-18mths. It is a process but I'd rather not have my kids in nappies at 2yo. That's my personal preference. Doesn't mean I log on and tell other parents TT that bar medical issues their kid should be TT by now? No. I offer support and what worked for me. Many on the hub would disagree with my TT and tell me that "it's too early", "wait till their ready" and that's OK. I can choose to ignore it.


    I stay out of the CC threads as it distresses me same with SOS. But I understand that others use it. Fine. It's not my life.
    No one has ever said you're a bad mum. You're totally NOT a bad mum.

    Anyone who gives sleep training advice does so to help those who *want to* sleep train or try and change their child's sleep. It is not given to shame those who don't or haven been successful in their attempts.

    Words like 'bad habit' and 'negative sleep associations' are used by so many sleep trainers, not just the more well known ones who we debate on here. But they're used with regards to sleep training, not with regard to babies and children who are aided to sleep by parents who are on team "children aren't for changing, no matter what". They aren't again used as bad words to explain babies and children or mothers, just the 'techniques' used in sleep training and are NEVER intended to be hurtful.

    I can see how they come off that way and I'm sorry anyone on here is made to feel like a bad mum, whether they're team sleep train or team children aren't meant to be changed' I think we agree everyone's intentions in here are sound but it's our differences that cloud our ability to see that.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to A-Squared For This Useful Post:

    VicPark  (20-02-2016)

  11. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,950
    Thanks
    694
    Thanked
    2,299
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    No one has ever said you're a bad mum. You're totally NOT a bad mum.

    Anyone who gives sleep training advice does so to help those who *want to* sleep train or try and change their child's sleep. It is not given to shame those who don't or haven been successful in their attempts.

    Words like 'bad habit' and 'negative sleep associations' are used by so many sleep trainers, not just the more well known ones who we debate on here. But they're used with regards to sleep training, not with regard to babies and children who are aided to sleep by parents who are on team "children aren't for changing, no matter what". They aren't again used as bad words to explain babies and children or mothers, just the 'techniques' used in sleep training and are NEVER intended to be hurtful.

    I can see how they come off that way and I'm sorry anyone on here is made to feel like a bad mum, whether they're team sleep train or team children aren't meant to be changed' I think we agree everyone's intentions in here are sound but it's our differences that cloud our ability to see that.
    Just because a 'sleep trainer' uses those words it does not mean it is right and that we should throw those words around for a vulnerable parent who asked for help.

    Feeding to sleep - sleep association
    Blankie - sleep association
    Dummy - sleep association
    Book - sleep association etc

    None of them are negative. Some may not work for a child and another might - it does not mean we have to say it is a 'negative association' or a 'bad habit'.

    I have seen VP and others that sleep train give good sleeping advice (I have even tagged her in threads!). But with the advice always came the black and white opinion of all babies sleep unless there are medical issues and that certain sleep associations are negative that make mothers feel like they are a bad mother.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to twinklify For This Useful Post:

    binnielici  (20-02-2016),Clementine Grace  (20-02-2016),HollyGolightly81  (20-02-2016),Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (20-02-2016)

  13. #67
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    7,845
    Thanks
    5,061
    Thanked
    4,446
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 17/4/15100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    Just because a 'sleep trainer' uses those words it does not mean it is right and that we should throw those words around for a vulnerable parent who asked for help.

    Feeding to sleep - sleep association
    Blankie - sleep association
    Dummy - sleep association
    Book - sleep association etc

    None of them are negative. Some may not work for a child and another might - it does not mean we have to say it is a 'negative association' or a 'bad habit'.

    I have seen VP and others that sleep train give good sleeping advice (I have even tagged her in threads!). But with the advice always came the black and white opinion of all babies sleep unless there are medical issues and that certain sleep associations are negative that make mothers feel like they are a bad mother.
    I agree that's how it's come across, but she's here now extending an olive branch and saying that nature does play a part.

    I disagree with your first point. Let's look at it from a logical and grammatical perspective. If sleep training = a baby waking up far less at night (say once instead of 10 times or not at all instead of twice) but a dummy for example is stopping that from happening (less wake ups where Bub need mum or dads help to get back to sleep) the. A dummy is negative in terms of a sleep association if you're sleep training. It doesn't say that anyone who uses a dummy is doing something negative or bad, or they are a bad parent it's only using those words in relation to successful sleep training.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to A-Squared For This Useful Post:

    TheGooch  (20-02-2016)

  15. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,283
    Thanks
    8,215
    Thanked
    3,927
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Just wading *gently* into this thread.

    Just as one side can claim "bad habit" and "negative associations" can be perceived as offensive or doing the wrong thing... I find the RIE (??? Never heard of it before this thread) philosophy- or "respectful parenting" term equally distressing as it implies that one who tries to change/improve their baby's sleep is not being respectful or caring about their child's needs.

    I want my baby to sleep better as I am not coping. I want my baby to sleep better as she is waking up crying multiple times every night every night needing help to get back to sleep. This is beneficial to both her and me. Not saying it is for everyone though, just us.

    I am so scared to talk about sleep training on bubhub or to often thank Vicpark's posts as I know how others feel about it- and I adore the likes of RAH and misskittyfantastico and don't want them to think less of me for sleep training

    And say what you like about VP she always take the time to reply to those with sleeping difficulties with detailed and careful responses, and offers of help via pm, I always appreciate the time she has taken and you can always ignore the posts if you don't find them helpful.

    Sorry ranting a bit here, have my hands full and little sleep

    Anyway I think there was nothing malicious in starting this thread and enjoyed the article.

  16. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Little Miss Sunshine For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),BettyV  (20-02-2016),gingermillie  (20-02-2016),Kaybaby  (20-02-2016),kiwimum890  (20-02-2016),nh2489  (20-02-2016),TheGooch  (20-02-2016),torn13  (20-02-2016),VicPark  (20-02-2016),wobbleyhorse  (20-02-2016)

  17. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,950
    Thanks
    694
    Thanked
    2,299
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    I'm not suelre I am quite getting out what I want to say. I hope this will be shorter.
    @VicPark - I am grateful for this thread. I know you did not do it to sh!tstir but to bridge the gap. Thank you. I also DO appreciate the time you take with trying to help those who are having issues with sleep. You are coming from a good place and you have plenty of good advice that has helped lots of mums.

    I think baby sleep is just one of those things that will never be consistent from child to child. Which is why there is so much advice out there.

    I am so sorry if someone has felt bad/distressed from 'respective parenting' (I have never used this term though). I hope I have never pushed this but I have always tried to (badly) say that some children to respond to training/routine/self settling on their own etc and it works for them/their family and it is the best thing for them. Which is why I think that the term is a little strange as are we not all respecting/responsive to our children? Your baby may like their own space or need help being comfortable in their own space - that is being respectful and responsive.

    I know I have constantly said that it did not work for my DS. But that is my DS. No idea what will work with DD. We will see.

    Sorry for yet another ramble. I think I am done.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to twinklify For This Useful Post:

    A-Squared  (20-02-2016),Little Miss Sunshine  (20-02-2016)

  19. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,211
    Thanks
    3,646
    Thanked
    3,454
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Awards:
    100 Posts in a week

    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    Just because a 'sleep trainer' uses those words it does not mean it is right and that we should throw those words around for a vulnerable parent who asked for help.

    Feeding to sleep - sleep association
    Blankie - sleep association
    Dummy - sleep association
    Book - sleep association etc

    None of them are negative. Some may not work for a child and another might - it does not mean we have to say it is a 'negative association' or a 'bad habit'.

    I have seen VP and others that sleep train give good sleeping advice (I have even tagged her in threads!). But with the advice always came the black and white opinion of all babies sleep unless there are medical issues and that certain sleep associations are negative that make mothers feel like they are a bad mother.
    I just want to touch on this a bit and it's something I've never said on here before but I've been thinking about it a lot lately. Can I just say, from experience--because I was one, that not all (and probably most) sleep trainers/consultants are trained in infant sleep or even development. Although many of us have worked with children in some sort of capacity and may have studied child development, we have not been formally trained in infant development or their sleep and behavior. Many sleep consultants that come to your house have only done one, all day course that teaches them that specific agency's or business' method. Many of the sleep trainers who write books are the same, they are nannies with years of experience but not actually trained in what is happening in a baby's little brain and body.

    I am not saying this applies to all sleep consultants or trainers, I know there are a few that are actually specialists in infant behavior, have done extensive study and research, sleep schools with resident pediatricians, etc. But so, so many that we are putting our absolute trust in to help us decide what is best for our babies during some pretty vulnerable times don't actually know much more than you do, they've just been trained by somebody who decided to start a baby sleep business.

    This is what I started to realize since having DS. I genuinely can't believe I was allowed to go into somebody's home and tell them how to sleep their baby and it now makes me extremely cautious and aware that many of us are all trusting people to help us make decisions for our babies who haven't actually studied infant development.

    I'm not anti-sleeping training, I constantly give advice on here based on my experience and I definitely enjoy finding valid studies and articles from professionals regarding infant sleep. I constantly fall into the baby sleep book trap. But this blind trust we put into people who have no formal training to tell us that 12 mins of crying at a few months old is ok or that bar medical reasons every baby can sleep, they can be weaned and shouldn't be hungry, etc, and then we feel like failures when it doesn't work---this just doesn't sit right with me anymore.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 20-02-2016 at 17:51.

  20. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to HollyGolightly81 For This Useful Post:

    babyla  (20-02-2016),Clementine Grace  (20-02-2016),gingermillie  (20-02-2016),just her chameleon  (20-02-2016),Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (20-02-2016),Stretched  (20-02-2016)


 

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone been to Brisbane's nurture centre?
    By nicole83 in forum General Sleeping & Settling Chat
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 10-09-2015, 15:01
  2. Nature Direct Revitaliser
    By bigZ in forum Product Recommendations & Questions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-08-2015, 03:40

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Softmats
With so many amazing reversible designs, the soft and cushioned Premium Bubba Mats are the perfect space for all the family. Not only do they look fantastic; you can also enjoy the quality and comfort for years to come.
sales & new stuffsee all
Bub Hub Sales Listing
HAVING A SALE? Let parents know about it with a Bub Hub Sales listing. Listings are featured on our well trafficked Sales Page + selected randomly to appear on EVERY page
featured supporter
KindyROO
KindyROO offers activities for babies & toddlers in a fun learning centre, focussing on developmental education. Classes are available at three Brisbane and two Gold Coast locations. Enrol today & help your child to reach their full potential. Visit the website to find out more.
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!