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  1. #51
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    ...
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 20-02-2016 at 01:13.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I wanted to stick up for RAH when I initially commented, then she asked me a question, I answered, etc.

    I didn't see her response a couple posts back until after I posted my last post. I thought about editing it but decided not to as I think my thoughts are still valid and I don't think she actually answered my question. And I am currently very cynical.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. But I'm also trying to see the point of this thread. If it's just to sh** stir then I'm wrong about it.

    I was in the thread with RAH and was actively supporting her. I know the history I share it closely.

    I am also old and am trying as I get older to let go of baggage as hard as it is. Otherwise I'd have left BH well and truly by now.

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    HollyGolightly81  (20-02-2016)

  4. #53
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    Aside from all the shenanigans above, I personally have found that I no longer feel comfortable sharing any of my experiences or "tips" regarding baby sleep to women who come on here asking for sleep help or advice. I don't think ANY of us are sleep experts, but we all do bring our experiences from raising our own children. We all have different experiences and needs and expectations. We all have different families and children and we have all found things that have or have not worked. There is no right answer, but to me, it's a shame that people don't feel comfortable with sharing their "advice" (particularly in regards to "sleep training ). It's almost like the old bed - sharing criticism has gone full- circle and has become critical of those who don't bed-share/boob to sleep etc.
    I personally had amazing success with controlled comforting or shush/pat, whatever it's called, but no longer dare to share my experiences anymore on here, despite it saving me from the loony bin and resulting in a much happier mum and bub.
    For many, BH is their community, their family, the aunt, mum , granny who they would ask for help and advice....

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  6. #54
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    @Kaybaby there are sections and specific threads for sleep training.

    Quite frankly I'd be happy if people did post in them as ask for help. I've seen people ( a long time ago mind) ask about CC for a 4 week old, or a 12 week old, and seen very balanced responses about why it's not possible so young. I think those threads are very helpful.

    The reality at the moment (for me anyway) is the views on these topics are quite polarised at the moment. There are few voices in the middle. Or if they are they get lost and are not being heard. so they stop.

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    HollyGolightly81  (20-02-2016)

  8. #55
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    I actually think many/most people are in the middle ground (as I feel I am - my DD cried far, far more before sleep training, than during or after..and I'm far from a proponent of allowing any of my kids to cry uncomforted) I just think the Hub has become a case of whoever shouts the loudest, and those in the middle simply don't post anymore. Probably because they use some elements of CC and are too scared to anymore. When I first started using the Hub (my oldest is 12) for parenting help I feel it was a much more balanced place in terms of sleep. The pendulum has swung, and the middle ground is no longer represented. Just my observation.

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  10. #56
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    ..
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 20-02-2016 at 01:12.

  11. #57
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    Does "RIE" stand for anything?? The phrase "Respectful Parenting" sounds rather w@nky, to be honest, and rather pseudo-intellectual.

    I try to practice "Loving Parenting"!!

    I allowed both my kids to CIO on many occasions when they were little. But not for extended periods of time. And after a few minutes, they would almost invariably fall asleep. They were wrapped tight, dummy wedged in tightly. They were warm, had full bellies and a clean bum. And sometimes paracetamol/ibuprofen if there was a chance they were in pain.

    I'm more than happy to say on here that I used CIO. My children are both excellent sleepers. Ironically, I am not, which is why I am posting on BH at 0630 Saturday morning.

    But my experience of n = 2 does not translate to the entire infant population, obviously. But I think it's good to share one's approach to infant sleeping, so others on here can pick and choose, and hopefully find something that works for them.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  13. #58
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    I do think the language we use is important.

    We all want what is best for our kids and our families. When someone comes on here (or in real life!) and ask for sleep advice they are usually desperate.

    On one 'side' there are people who sleep train. And have advice re: routine/settling techniques/self settling. But the butting heads usually comes with statements that say certain ways to put a child to sleep is then a 'bad habit' etc.

    I think we all agree all children and people are different. Yes, we can welcome advice on how to put a baby to sleep 'drowsy but awake' for SOME kids. Others do not have 'drowsy but awake'. Some babies love their space. Some need continual comfort by having mum/dad nearby (sometimes in the same bed to cosleep - sometimes the same room).

    There is nothing wrong with any way. But we need to be respectful. Give advice from both sides. If someone is struggling with sleep training - give them a chance to feed to sleep/rock to sleep etc without the negative 'making a rod for your back', 'bad habit' comments.

    There are those who cannot cosleep or sleep in the room. Baby may think its party time etc so needs some routine/structure to possibly sleep on their own with a little training. So of course that does not make anyone a bad mother. If their child grizzles and sleeps on their own the parent is not 'neglectful' or 'selfish' for trying to give their bub the space they need.

    I suppose what I am trying to say is the helpfulness and ideas we are trying to give get lost in the 'this is my OPINION and that makes ME right comments that come with the real advice'.

    I hope that makes sense. Its not even 7 in the morning yet and I'm tapping away on my phone.
    Last edited by twinklify; 20-02-2016 at 07:30.

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  15. #59
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    I agree with PP. It's statements about "unless medical conditions" "give more solids" "boob/dummy/patting are negative sleep association" that get people including me cranky.

    It makes it sound like we as parents are not trying hard enough. That we are failures. I am not a failure as a parent. I'm a bloody good one.

    An example is that I TT my kids early around 15-18mths. It is a process but I'd rather not have my kids in nappies at 2yo. That's my personal preference. Doesn't mean I log on and tell other parents TT that bar medical issues their kid should be TT by now? No. I offer support and what worked for me. Many on the hub would disagree with my TT and tell me that "it's too early", "wait till their ready" and that's OK. I can choose to ignore it.


    I stay out of the CC threads as it distresses me same with SOS. But I understand that others use it. Fine. It's not my life.

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  17. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post

    Maybe @VicPark you can come back and answer one simple question?

    Do you accept that despite every effort a parent may make some kids won't sleep well? And no I'm not talking about medical issues.

    Can you agree with that proposition?

    .
    Since you asked so nicely Sonja (much appreciated btw) then yes absolutely you are correct - I agree. Always have always agreed although I really do understand that was not always made clear to others.

    On a final side note I am disappointed to see some are still using this thread as an opportunity to scratch past itches and perpetuate the us and them debate. As opposed to the Christian approach of taking the olive branch that this thread was intended to be.

    Good day people. Please feel free to continue talking about the article - I really think it is a good read.

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