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  1. #41
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    What's RIE?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Enough View Post
    This sums it up for me. I will change foods, meal times, nap times, room temperatures etc but I can't let DD2 cry it out, even at her worst when I felt so tired I could snap in two. That's not judging others who do, it was just more upsetting to me than being super tired. So I live with it and she's gradually improving in her own time. Other mums might have "fixed" her by now.
    Maybe the same applies to me. I just cannot let my child cry it out/control cry. He never had a grizzle. He just wanted mum. Or dad. And I could not just ignore that.

    I tried a few different things. And yes, I am sleep deprived. But I truly believe that in my instance feeding/cuddling/rocking to sleep and cosleeping was not a 'bad' habit. Or detrimental to him at all. He just needed time. And support. Some babies need more than others. But it is ok.

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blessedwith3boys View Post
    Why did you feel the need to say what you did in the first place?
    It's not the message but the messenger... really! Rude much..
    Oh dear lord!

  5. #44
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Enough View Post
    This sums it up for me. I will change foods, meal times, nap times, room temperatures etc but I can't let DD2 cry it out, even at her worst when I felt so tired I could snap in two. That's not judging others who do, it was just more upsetting to me than being super tired. So I live with it and she's gradually improving in her own time. Other mums might have "fixed" her by now.
    Yep me too.

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  7. #45
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    After 3 kids, one who was a dream sleeper, one who had a bad patch but otherwise was good... and one horrendously bad sleeper, I don't buy the learned excuse. Just bc some babies end up learning to self settle from repeated sleep training doesn't mean it wasn't a issue of nature.

    I liken it to a child with ADHD, so nature, who is belted every time they do something wrong. Their impulsive behaviour may improve, doesn't mean that is proof it isn't nature.

  8. #46
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I think it was maybe an olive branch until she wouldn't concede...to rose's request then my cynical pants came on
    This is the last thing I will post on here.

    I am a nuffy and thought I had been clear in a previous post in agreeing with Roses question (yes I do agree with what Rose asked it's a bit if both nature and nurture) but upon re-reading my post I realised it wasn't obvious that I agreed. Call it a moment of 'whoopsie' in a hectic day of work and kid wrangling.

    At that point, I didn't have the energy to get involved in a debate, and I didn't have the patience to respond to additional questioning which let's be honest came from a place of personal motivation as opposed to genuine discussion about the OP.

    I just wanted to post a thread to try and bridge the gap and help make some mummies feel better.

    Cheers ladies.

    Ps wtf is rie????

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  10. #47
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    As you all probably know I sit on the fence with sleep.

    My sanity depends on my kids sleeping well, that's just my nature (not because I'm a selfish parent who wants my kids to fit into my perfect life) so I support anyone who sleep trains or tries to improve their children's sleep and it's why I typically support VP in her views and advice.

    On the flip side, I also can see how trying to change a child's sleep but without success (due to the baby's nature) can be stressful for others and why they decide to stop trying to change their babies and go with the flow.

    My summary is that my sanity won't allow me to go with the flow (not just yet anyway - I need a bit of nurturing to change how sleep deprivation makes me feel). It's what works for individual families.

    So believe what you like about sleep training (or not sleep training), but to me this article and VP are clearly saying that those on VPs side of the fence *might*have success with sleep training (as nurture *might* change a child's sleep) but also that on R&A&Hs et al's side of the fence some babies just aren't 'born' to sleep through the night.

    I posted recently about an old colleague who died at 27 years old in a car crash over the weekend leaving a 4 month old son behind. Her husband said she hadn't slept for 48 hours prior to crashing into a tree, i know it's an extreme example but it highlights how bad sleep deprivation can be, so if a mum wants to try and change that, she shouldn't be shamed (Hopefully that's not what happened to Kirsty!) She should be supported in trying to change things up (if that's what she chooses) then if it looks like nature is at play and her child was born a 'bad sleeper' and nothing would change that, then she should be supported in getting through those early years in her child's life.

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  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    This is the last thing I will post on here.

    I am a nuffy and thought I had been clear in a previous post in agreeing with Roses question (yes I do agree with what Rose asked it's a bit if both nature and nurture) but upon re-reading my post I realised it wasn't obvious that I agreed. Call it a moment of 'whoopsie' in a hectic day of work and kid wrangling.

    At that point, I didn't have the energy to get involved in a debate, and I didn't have the patience to respond to additional questioning which let's be honest came from a place of personal motivation as opposed to genuine discussion about the OP.

    I just wanted to post a thread to try and bridge the gap and help make some mummies feel better.

    Cheers ladies.

    Ps wtf is rie????
    RIE is where you posted from you numpty.
    Yes you've ****ed me off recently but
    I'm genuinely sorry I hurt you.

  13. #49
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    Deleted post. Decided to bow out of this discussion.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 20-02-2016 at 01:11.

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  15. #50
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    Default Baby sleep: Nature and Nurture

    What's the point really then of engaging on these threads with the same people anymore.

    I thought she was saying above that she agreed with Rose but didn't express it clearly enough.

    Maybe @VicPark you can come back and answer one simple question?

    Do you accept that despite every effort a parent may make some kids won't sleep well? And no I'm not talking about medical issues.

    Can you agree with that proposition?

    I'm a dreadful sleeper. Always have been. It's plagued me all my life. And my mother is too. I pray none of my kids have inherited whatever makes the women in my family insomniacs. DH is a great sleeper so hopefully enough of him is in them to counter act my crappy sleep genes.

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