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  1. #71
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    Default Petition to keep babies safe

    Can I just add the debate on this topic is ridiculous. I actually agree with the change in law. I had honestly never heard of extended rear facing but my kids are older so it's not part of my life anymore.

    My comments last night were not intended to disagree with the law more trying to understand when it became possible. I still don't know to be honest.
    Last edited by Sonja; 10-02-2016 at 07:59.

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  3. #72
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    So the studies aren't based in Australia, isn't a child in any country still a child. I just don't see why those reports aren't relevant. This isn't new either, my daughter was born in 2012 and I knew then that extended read facing was best and we were over 12 months both times. Honestly could have gone even longer but I was happy with 12 months for both my kids with the current seats and laws.

  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Here is a different petition some may be happier signing. From it I gather that extended rearfacing seats have been available since 2013.

    https://www.change.org/p/keep-austra...-months-of-age

    Www.rearfacingdownunder.com
    The new standards were designed in September 2014, they all are quite new to the market, and still quite pricey. The car seat manufacturers also had to design type g seats (harness til 8) as well, so we are still seeing extended rear facing seats trickling into the market. They can be hard to find in shops to purchase, and can cost quite a bit. Hopefully in a few years the cheaper options of current designs will make extended rear facing commonplace

  5. #74
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    I preface this by saying I haven't read all of the links, just a few posted by HGL.

    VP is right though, the ones I read were essentially "opinion pieces".

    The problem with asking for a so-called "scientific study" is this... You cannot do a proper randomised-controlled-study (RCT) on this. It's unethical, and no-one would participate anyway. There are no relevant animals to use instead. Yes, there are "models", but even these have very limited generalability to children.

    Yes, you could do retrospective studies, but these are very difficult to quantify, and a poor cousin to the RCT.

    Yes, children have much bigger and heavier heads in proportion to their bodies, so it "makes sense" that an impact in the forward position would potentially cause more cervical vertebral damage, due to the momentum of the head, and the neck behaving as a fulcrum. But... at what age or weight this risk becomes acceptable is, essentially, not able to be documented scientifically.

    So...we are left with "opinion pieces".

    I don't have the answer. I don't even have an opinion on this one (which may be a first for me). I actually thought the rules in Victoria were 12 months or 10kg, whichever came first.

    And before someone says "you can't do a RCT on seat-belts either, why should that be the rule"...some things don't need scientific proof, just basic knowledge of Physics. We are not debating seatbelts in children, but the type thereof.



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  7. #75
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    Australia is the "only" country that allows this? Really?

    I am almost sure that in Ireland you can turn at 9 months, and I think the law states that the restraint must be appropriate for height and weight, and that rearward facing must never be near an airbag, rather than ages.
    They recommend up to 15 months, but its not law.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Is that particularly fair if 1 extended rear facing seats weren't available until last year and 2 they have only recently changed the law in the UK anyway?

    Holly I get your passionate about this but if this is relatively new in Australia give people time to wrap their heads around it. I've personally never seen a child over 9 months rear facing and I live in babyland. Maybe give it a year or 2 and it might be more prevalent and become more the norm.
    Most height marker seats that have been around since 2012 will rear face a large 12mth old. In fact an A2 seat will say on the box Rear Facing til 12 months. My now 4yr old was rear faced til 18months in his 2012 seat and a lot of people get to 2-3yrs in a Infa Neon from BigW that is often on sale for $139 and it it a standard A2 seat. A lot of the time you don't need a specific A4 seat to continue past 6 months just use the seat to the manufacturers recommendations and not view 6mths as a "milestone" to turn before a child's shoulders reaches the RF height marker.
    Last edited by WiseOldOwl; 10-02-2016 at 10:45.

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  10. #77
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    I think mods should close this thread and a new one started to do with studies or child seats as this has totally derailed from please sign this petition. 😤😤

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    why can't threads just evolve organically?

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  13. #79
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    @VicPark if you want to get some facts from an Australian source, I suggest the Infasecure facebook page (possibly their website, too). They're very informative with the benefits of ERF, as well as harnessing til 8 and beyond, and seem to be leading the way with producing carseats that give us the most safety within our current carseat laws.

    I'll also add that a baby's strength and ability to avoid sustaining injury during a car accident does not change just because they live in Australia. Australian babies aren't exclusively born with a super strength spine or anything else. Scientific studies about ERF this are going to be valid, regardless of where in the world they're created.

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  15. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicmama View Post

    I'll also add that a baby's strength and ability to avoid sustaining injury during a car accident does not change just because they live in Australia. Australian babies aren't exclusively born with a super strength spine or anything else. Scientific studies about ERF this are going to be valid, regardless of where in the world they're created.
    Exactly.


 

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