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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    We're talking about Julian Assange, not *all* whistleblowers.
    I could have phrased it differently.

    Let's say I'm surprised that people are so unsympathetic towards this specific whistleblower.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparklebug View Post
    I understand, but really is it help if it leads to extradition. And while I'm not one to question a sexual harassment case, Sweden's involvement seems a convenient coincidence.
    Our consulate will provide you legal advice and assistance if you get into trouble overseas - but we do not and can not aid or assist people in avoiding the law, arrest or the consequences of your actions.

    If you break the law overseas, Australia will offer you assistance, and have done for Julian Assange. But they wont secret you out of the country, or protect you from being arrested - and nor will they for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Im so surprised people are quite unsympathetic towards whistleblowers.

    I'm very grateful for JA work and Wikileaks.

    Don't expect Australia to help him though.
    I am definitely sympathetic to whistleblowers - where people expose corruption, negligence or other misdeeds I am all for protecting them as far and as much as possible.

    Where people publish vast quantities of intelligence data simply because they dont agree that military and governments should have secrets, that isnt a whistleblower to me. That is just a dude with a grudge against government/military.

    He wasnt exposing corruption. He was simply trying to embarass governments.

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    Default Julian Assange.... Why is he treated differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by BH-KatiesMum View Post
    Our consulate will provide you legal advice and assistance if you get into trouble overseas - but we do not and can not aid or assist people in avoiding the law, arrest or the consequences of your actions.

    If you break the law overseas, Australia will offer you assistance, and have done for Julian Assange. But they wont secret you out of the country, or protect you from being arrested - and nor will they for him.



    I am definitely sympathetic to whistleblowers - where people expose corruption, negligence or other misdeeds I am all for protecting them as far and as much as possible.

    Where people publish vast quantities of intelligence data simply because they dont agree that military and governments should have secrets, that isnt a whistleblower to me. That is just a dude with a grudge against government/military.

    He wasnt exposing corruption. He was simply trying to embarass governments.
    Governments who send their people off to war, to kill or be killed, for what oil? Wealth? Power? To help? In the history of our existence who has war ever helped? There just isn't a reason valid enough for me.

    And I don't want to trust these governments blindly, especially one as flawed as the us, who can't get their health system in order yet make decisions that affect the whole world.
    Anyway as probably very evident I'm an idealist, so that is the only angle I can see politics from
    Last edited by sparklebug; 07-02-2016 at 17:29.

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    Default Julian Assange.... Why is he treated differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    I could have phrased it differently.

    Let's say I'm surprised that people are so unsympathetic towards this specific whistleblower.
    I just genuinely feel like he doesn't seem like a good person so it's hard for me to muster up sympathy for him, maybe me being American subconsciously plays into that, I don't know. But it's pretty rich that he leaks info and then seeks asylum in a country known for silencing it's media and has a list of human rights violations. But overall, I think he seems like a pretty entitled, arrogant a$$, so like I said it's hard for me to go 'oh poor Julian!' I don't doubt he'll eventually have to face some sort of legal proceedings in America but this whole idea that he's going to be murdered or tortured, cmon, do you honestly think the US is going to risk that with how much media attention he gets world wide? The government is allowing and providing for Chelsea Manning (Assange's source of the leaks) to undergo hormone therapy, psychological therapy etc for her gender transition, hardly being tortured. And yes, I know it's been a lengthy battle for her to receive the hormone therapy but she is.

    General post:

    As far as whistleblowers, of course I have sympathy for some and feel they've done the right thing. But at the same time hacking is illegal, where do we draw the line in who is justified in their hacking and who isn't?

    As far as Sweden, I've been thinking about them. I'm not sure if the issue of them covering up the sex attacks by refugees is relevant. Were they just not making it public to the world wide media but women were still being helped by law enforcement, attackers arrested when possible? Or were they just completely turning a blind eye and letting attackers continue to run around with no arrests? I have a hard time believing the latter is true. I feel like the media not knowing about the attacks is completely irrelevant to them wanting to extradite Assange for questioning.

    I do also find it interesting that when it comes to Assange the rape claims must be bogus but if it were anyone else we would give the victims stories the benefit of the doubt. Is it really surprising the women have backed down considering how much media scrutiny has followed their allegations?

    I don't really understand what people want the Australian government to do for him, sneak him out of Europe? Would they do that for any other citizen?
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 07-02-2016 at 17:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparklebug View Post
    Governments who send their people off to war, to kill or be killed, for what oil? Wealth? Power? To help? In the history of our existence who has war ever helped? There just isn't a reason valid enough for me.

    And I don't want to trust these governments blindly, especially one as flawed as the us, who can't get their health system in order yet make decisions that affect the whole world.
    Anyway as probably very evident I'm an idealist, so that is the only angle I can see politics from
    C'mon. The US health system (which has been reformed...republicans just want to repeal it) is irrelevant to the argument.

    You do know the US can't win when it comes to problems with other countries (and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every action we have taken was right at all) but it is constantly a situation of damned if we do damned if we don't. We either interfere too much or not enough. When I visited Bosnia we were robbed and the US embassy provided a Bosnian woman for us to walk with us to the police station to act as an interpreter. As we walked she told us how when the war was happening how angry they all were with the US because we didn't intervene sooner. There are constant comments currently about why isn't American stopping Assad in Syria, etc. I feel world politics is so much more complex than any of us can possibly understand, it's not as simple as saying it's all the US' fault for whatever reason, they can't be trusted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    C'mon. The US health system (which has been reformed...republicans just want to repeal it) is irrelevant to the argument.

    You do know the US can't win when it comes to problems with other countries (and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every action we have taken was right at all) but it is constantly a situation of damned if we do damned if we don't. We either interfere too much or not enough. When I visited Bosnia we were robbed and the US embassy provided a Bosnian woman for us to walk with us to the police station to act as an interpreter. As we walked she told us how when the war was happening how angry they all were with the US because we didn't intervene sooner. There are constant comments currently about why isn't American stopping Assad in Syria, etc. I feel world politics is so much more complex than any of us can possibly understand, it's not as simple as saying it's all the US' fault for whatever reason, they can't be trusted.
    We're completely off topic, but just to clarify I don't mean for my comments to come off as aggressive or argumentative.
    As I said I'm an idealist I see no glory in war. War to me has no hero's, just victims.
    Your right, the health care system has nothing to do with it, I just meant, it's not right in my opinion for one country to attempt to 'fix' others, especially when they don't have their sh*t together, I'd say switzerland, Norway, Denmark all make better role models. I think it's dangerous to expect one country to fix another. Imagine Putin wakes up in the morning and decides to 'fix' the world, where would that leave us

    I have spent time and lived in war torn countries I'm aware of people's varied exceptions and views of the US.
    I've seen first hand the effects of war 20years later, when reporters and the world forget and move on, but those people are left behind in their ruins, entire generations of people in their prime are left with their PTSD's, broken and wounded to pick up the pieces, and to raise children in that environment.
    I agree world politics are far too complex. But war is never the answer, there is always far too much collateral damage.

    This is the reason we have the UN, albeit great in theory perhaps not so much in practice, but the UN's sole purpose of existents is international peace and security. Of course they too are flawed and corruption exists everywhere, but it is their job, shouldn't they step up to these tasks?

    Anyway this has gone in a completely different direction, and that was the longest clarification ever.....now back to Julian.....


 

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