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  1. #1
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    Default HWYF.... How would you feel? Work question

    Okay so I returned to work last July after my second baby. I work 3 days a week. I also worked 3 days a week after having DD.

    Both times, after I had been back at work for a few months my boss praised how well I've transitioned back to work and that the fact I had young kids didn't impact on my attendance and work effort etc.

    Thing is, when I was away on my second lot of mat leave, the girl who replaced me was given a promotion. She had been there 9 months and was given the promotion 2 weeks before I returned to work. She also became my boss!

    I was a bit peeved then but I made a vow it wouldn't effect me, it was only a temporary thing until Jan 16 (so 6 months). Well in December her position was advertised as a permanent position and the job opportunity was sent around our team.

    Of the people suitable for the role there was...

    Me: I've been there 6 years and have 11+ years marketing experience (it's a marketing role) and I've managed people within certain projects in that time and have done a management training course.

    Let's call her Jane: she's doing the same job as me at the same level and has been there since she replaced me during my first mat leave, so 4 years. She has 12+ years marketing experience, she did a 18 month secondment where she managed 3 staff.

    Let's call her Sarah: She was performing the advertised role for 6 months on contract, has been there 14 months total and has 3 years marketing experience, no managerial experience at all - not even a training course.

    So I asked a question about the application requirements as I was set to apply for the role. My boss (original boss) didn't answer my question he just said, you do realise I'm expecting this role to be full time. I queried that and said what scope would I have to negotiate reduced hours if I were to apply. He spun me the official policy line of that the most suitable candidate for the role would be appointed and at that point they had the option to negotiate reduced hours.....

    But what's the point? You've already basically said not to apply because I wouldn't be able to negotiate part time hours as he wouldn't be willing to negotiate - he wanted someone full time!

    So I didn't bother as I saw how it was going to play out. Jane did apply, she had to address 24 selection criteria! She got an interview but didn't get the role. She was told she was too arrogant in the interview (uuuuum aren't you meant to be in an interview - you're selling yourself!) and she didn't answer a question about marketing plans for 2016 as well as Sarah. Thing is Sarah had been working on the marketing plans for the 2 months prior - of course she answered it better.

    So Jane had managerial experience and had been in the team for 4 years, but didn't get the role over someone with less marketing experience and less experience in our workplace! I'm peeved off for her! I'm also peeved off at my boss for the comments about full time.

    So fast forward to now both Jane and I had been asking for months about when we were going to meet to develop the marketing plans for 2016, we were told they were waiting for a whole of organisational staff reshuffle to be finalised before we do the plans. That turned out to be BS, basically Jane and I weren't involved in developing the marketing plans (something we had done every year up until now as its in our job description) my original boss and Sarah did them together with NO input from me and Jane.

    So not only had we been cast aside and overlooked for the team leader position, they completely ignored a combined 10 years experience in those same roles for the organisation and over 20 years marketing experience we had. So now we will just be given the plans to implement, we have essentially been demoted.

    All by a boss who always praised me for my return to work behaviour and efforts about how it was his job to prepare me for my next role (he's done nothing for me in the 4.5 years he has been there) and he wanted to as he valued my experience and work ethic etc, yet he has allowed all of this other stuff to happen.

    I don't know what I have done wrong or why Sarah is getting preferential treatment when she's not as experienced as Jane and I both in the organisation or in marketing. She's our team leader who just last week went to a training course entitled "from team member to team leader"... WTF!?

    I feel so used and like I've been cast aside. I'm hard working, have given that job my all, I'm always presenting new ideas, I'm always improving processes, I'm always supporting my other team members and all for what!? I'm so unmotivated and feel really quite sad about the whole thing.

    Sorry for the novel.... Question is if you were me, HWYF!? How would you feel? Am I over reacting? Justified? Was my boss wrong in his approach in telling me the role was part time, is this just how things are given I can only work part time at the moment and I need to suck it up!???

  2. #2
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    I would upset about missing out on the Team Leader position but they did want FT and they both have a right to want that, and you have a right to only want to work PT hours. However, the other girl with loads of experience should have got it. Furthermore, I do wonder if she had a penis, would she/he be considered arrogant or 'confident', 'motivated' or 'high self worth'? I bet a million bucks I am right.

    But the whole circumventing you and the other girl to do the plans though, I'd be p*ssed. You both have extensive experience, it's in your job description... why cut you out?

    I'd be feeling quite expendable and looking for a new job if it were me.

  3. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to delirium For This Useful Post:

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  4. #3
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    Totally agree with ^^^

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    Happens at my work all the time. Management have favourites and will always choose them for the role they want. Often "yes people" who don't challenge anything.

    Similar scenario at my work. Both my mat leave replacements have gone on to be my boss. I haven't actually applied for the role, but that last time two suitable people applied and didn't get it. One with 20+ years experience and in a senior role didn't get an interview!

    Second was a more junior person with 8 years experience and very good at her job applied. The manager was acting she was a shoo in to get the job. But they had also begged a guy with similar experience level to apply, he had declined then after the closing date decided to apply. They sent him straight to interview rounds and offered it to him, telling girl equivalent she didn't have enough management experience (he had the exact same experience!!).

    Anyway then they were negotiating pay. Guy wanted more money then they offered. He made a counter offer and was waiting to hear back when he heard they had given it to a girl (maybe 23) who had been here less than two years as my maternity cover. Stuff all experience in anything.

    Just know you aren't alone. Management are screwing people over in all companies.

    Girl who got the job is lovely and a friend but doesn't have the experience to do the roll.

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  8. #5
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    Hi there, i think is is what happens when you are part time and the role demands full time unfortunately. I chose to work part time for years after having my first too and saw many many ofy more junior fly past me into promotion but that's how it is and i had made my decision. When i was ready to go for the promotion i put in for it knowing full well it would involve going fulltime immediately if i were successful.

  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I would upset about missing out on the Team Leader position but they did want FT and they both have a right to want that, and you have a right to only want to work PT hours. However, the other girl with loads of experience should have got it. Furthermore, I do wonder if she had a penis, would she/he be considered arrogant or 'confident', 'motivated' or 'high self worth'? I bet a million bucks I am right.

    But the whole circumventing you and the other girl to do the plans though, I'd be p*ssed. You both have extensive experience, it's in your job description... why cut you out?

    I'd be feeling quite expendable and looking for a new job if it were me.
    This. I have heard/read so much about how unfair it is that women with children (usually part time workers) do not get any manager/TL roles as they need to be FT. I hope that all industries change the way they view flexible working arrangements but to be honest I'd be p*ssed.

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  11. #7
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    Default HWYF.... How would you feel? Work question

    Sorry that you Have had to go through this.
    In regards to the role itself, I can understand the requirement for FT and what it would require. And for you it sounds like that was not an option. Frustrating that it wasn't a flexible role, as it sounds like you are extremely motivated and passionate about what you do.
    As for the girl that actually go the role, it's hard one. Generally meritocracy with promotions within the organization are based on a) results b) leadership and from what you have said it doesn't sound like she really demonstrated either of those?

    Unfortunately she is is the role now, and you will need to make it work with her or perhaps look for another role of you are not feeling valued (as a last resort). As she is now your manager can you sit down with her to understand the brand planning process for 2016? Explain to her previously you have been heavily involved in the planning process, that this is a part of your role that you love doing, you love the strategic thinking etc etc throw in a few words around this keeps you motivated, develops you etc etc. as a manager she should listen and a good manager should want to ensure her team are developing. Either way you have then addressed you concerns and have provided her an opportunity to do something to rectify.

    Good luck! Xx
    Last edited by lauzie; 04-02-2016 at 06:24.

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  13. #8
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    Honestly? I think that as an employer, your boss is within his rights to want to hire a person into a full time position. And the fact that you can't commit to that makes you ineligible to apply, equally as much as if you lacked qualifications or experience. You have a right to work part time too, so maybe this job just wasn't for you to start with.

    You have loads of experience under your belt and had you been able to work full time I have no doubt it would have been you chosen to do the job out of the available applicants. So the question then becomes how do YOU feel about it? Strongly enough to move on to a new employer who would appreciate what you can do in a part time capacity, or just upset enough to take it on the chin and work in a job where you feel undervalued?

    Hugs hon, I know this sort of thing can be really upsetting, and I can appreciate how insulting it must feel to be passed over. But at the same time, from an employer's perspective - well, if they need a full time person I think they are allowed to hold out for that.

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  15. #9
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    I would feel upset about being left out of the planning.
    As for him wanting full time, I can understand that.
    With Jane not getting the job despite having more experience, that depends. More experience does not always mean she is better. And the reason given for her not getting it because she was arrogant is a bit strange.
    As both were existing staff I would guess the boss already knew who he wanted to hire and the interview was just a process.

  16. #10
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    1. I would be ****ed for myself that I missed out on a promotion

    2. I wouldn't be ****ed at my employer for not making a team leader role part time from the outset. Team leader roles (in my work at least) are very hard to fill effectively if you are in any less than 4 days per week. I probably would have applied for the position and if I was found successful then make a call on whether I would accept it (based on whether their offer of flexible hours was sufficient for me).

    3. I wouldn't necessarily be ****ed that one person got the job over another. Staff members don't have access to all the information panel members/managers do. Perhaps the new person has experience you are unaware of. Perhaps your friend stuffed up in a previous job (or current job) .

    I would probably grab a bottle of wine for Friday night and ask the new boss if she would like a handover from the previous years marketing plans - to prevent her coming accross some of the roadblocks you did. If you open the conversation in this way if there are valid reasons why she didn't consult you (eg she was told to do it herself) then this approach will help both of you. If she doesn't have a valid reason then this may help nudge her in the direction of better management. And will leave you smelling of roses and in consideration for the next opportunity.


 

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