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  1. #81
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    I don't buy the semantics that it's ok to ruin other children's christmas' because it's the truth.

    What it boils down to is that religious people believe they have the moral high ground. They don't. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all, but it's something I've observed.

    Ok so let's take semantics away. I teach my child that to be over a healthy BMI you are fat and unhealthy. That many overweight people lack self esteem. Facts.

    My daughter who is tiny then goes to school and says in passing to a female school mate that she is so fat, unhealthy and clearly she has zero self esteem. Bc she's mimicking me.

    The overweight girl runs off crying. I respond as the mother by saying factually she is fat, it is unhealthy and that it is my belief that fat people are gross (of course I don't believe this people!!!!)

    Ok?

    NO matter which way it slides you can't have it both ways. You either demand respect AND give it. or you don't. You can't pick and choose bc you think your belief is more right/righteous/factual whatever.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    It's the world we live in, period. But with respect, I do wonder whether you'd be ok with my child telling your child that, I don't think you would given your strong responses on here. Which is more than fine. I understand this is your faith and safe place to fall. But I see huge double standards here.

    Just because it happens to Christians doesn't mean it is, or should be ok with you and it isn't. Why should it be for me? No offence meant but religious people don't corner the market on being marginalised or feeling outraged lol
    Seriously i am fine with your child having a opinion and you. You can shout it to the mountain tops if you like.
    My sister and brother in law (the two people I am closest with other than my hubby and my kids) are very anti God. There Facebook pages are constantly full of that sort of thing. We have discussion with them which include my kids. DD1 is also quite vocal about the fact that she doesn't believe in God.

    I am all for freedom of religion.

    Christians are one of the most privileged, non-marginilized people out there, so of course I am not offended when other kids tell my children their beliefs. But what about all the children who come from families who don't celebrate Christmas for religious reasons. Your insistance on Santa being real and "they weren't good enough this year" to give them gifts is just year is just as offensive.

    Can you tell where DD1 took over my post?

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    The overweight girl runs off crying. I respond as the mother by saying factually she is fat, it is unhealthy and that it is my belief that fat people are gross (of course I don't believe this people!!!!)

    Ok?

    NO matter which way it slides you can't have it both ways. You either demand respect AND give it. or you don't. You can't pick and choose bc you think your belief is more right/righteous/factual whatever.
    But you're confusing fact and beliefs. Research shows that BMI is not necessarily an accurate predictor of overall health and it is especially inaccurate when applied to certain racial groups. Many tall or muscly people who are neither fat nor unhealthy have high BMIs. It's a belief not a fact. You can tell your child that and they can tell other kids and school and hurt their feelings but you don't have the intellectual high ground there, because your 'facts' are inaccurate.

    My facts are accurate. If my child told some kid at school that fact though I wouldn't be an a$$ and say well tough luck and your kid is an idiot because they believe in a fictional character. Wanting to be honest with my child doesn't make me a monster and I don't think I have the moral high ground. It's just a personal choice.

    Look no one here is saying we'd go out of our way to upset people and ruin their Christmas. The fact is Santa isn't real and we don't celebrate Christmas so when my child asks I'll tell her the truth. Some people believe that Jesus was born on this day although we don't and that's what they are celebrating, but there's no such thing as Santa and it has nothing to do with her being good or bad so she shouldn't be upset when she doesn't get presents. Also that some kids don't know that so she shouldn't say anything to them, it's up to their parents to decide when to tell them the truth. That's my plan and I don't think it makes me an awful person and if my child slips up and does tell a child the truth I'll be apologetic but I won't change how I handle the whole thing.

  5. #84
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    I haven't yet read responses, so undoubtedly others have already expressed (and challenged) views such as these, but personally:

    I understand that you're upset. Many of us have strong ideas on the kinds of worldviews/beliefs etc. that we want our kids exposed to, and it can be hard letting go of the idea that we can, or should, be able to do that with society's support.

    All in all though, I think hat beliefs should always be challenged. Robust intellectual debate is how we (even 7 year olds) refine our understanding of the world and decide which beliefs really, truly make sense to us and which ones to reject.

    It's important that children learn to deal with beliefs different from their own...to consider them and either take them on board or reject them (hopefully with respect). It's part of developing essential life skills.

    So no, I wouldn't mention anything to the teacher. The other kid isn't doing anything wrong in expressing their views...7 year olds are often very black and white about their own belief being true/fact. It's a great learning opportunity for your daughter.

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  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    It's not though, sure some people think God isn't real, and they're perfectly entitled to do so. They can't prove it though, anymore than I can prove he is real. I can't be upset if they tell their kids he isn't real anymore than they should be upset if I tell my kids he is real. The veracity of our beliefs is up for debate and has been for centuries.

    We all agree Santa doesn't exist, it's not debatable. It's a myth, originating from St Nicholas. We can literally trace the evolution of the story into its current 'Hallmarked/ Americanized' form. We know there's no fat guy at the North Pole coming down our chimneys. How can someone be upset that I tell my child the truth. Sure I'll tell my child not to go telling other children at school as my parents did with me but I can't guarantee she won't and I won't tell her it's something we don't 'believe' but others do 'believe' because to me it's not about 'believing' or not, it's just the truth.
    To me god is as real as Santa (though Santa is real, my bank balance at the end of December can vouch for that 😉). Not really interested in a debate about it but one can't disprove god in the same way one can't disprove the flying spaghetti monster, fairies or leprechauns. To me they're all mythical. That's where the analogy runs true. Just because we all don't agree on it doesn't mean the analogy isn't there for some people.

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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
    To me god is as real as Santa (though Santa is real, my bank balance at the end of December can vouch for that 😉). Not really interested in a debate about it but one can't disprove god in the same way one can't disprove the flying spaghetti monster, fairies or leprechauns. To me they're all mythical. That's where the analogy runs true. Just because we all don't agree on it doesn't mean the analogy isn't there for some people.
    Look I honestly respect your opinion and I'm not looking to argue. We can totally agree to disagree.

    My point is simply that non religious people often say well I don't tell my kids that your God isn't real so don't tell your kids that's Santa isn't real. Thing is, like LoveLivesHere, I honestly don't mind if your child tells my child that God isn't real. It's a perfectly valid belief to have. I can simply say to my kid some people believe and some don't, but I do believe in God.

    But then people fly off the handle that my kid has said Santa isn't real. I don't get it.

    But anyway, let's agree to disagree.

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  11. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    Look I honestly respect your opinion and I'm not looking to argue. We can totally agree to disagree.

    My point is simply that non religious people often say well I don't tell my kids that your God isn't real so don't tell your kids that's Santa isn't real. Thing is, like LoveLivesHere, I honestly don't mind if your child tells my child that God isn't real. It's a perfectly valid belief to have. I can simply say to my kid some people believe and some don't, but I do believe in God.

    But then people fly off the handle that my kid has said Santa isn't real. I don't get it.

    But anyway, let's agree to disagree.
    I never said I'd be happy for my kids to say to a child who believed in god that god isn't real. I only answered the OP about how I would feel if any kid told my kids that Santa isn't real, regardless of whether it was because of their religious beliefs or simply because they found out. If my son explicitly said to a religious child "god isn't real" I'd have words with him, much in the same way I'd have words if he said to another child "Santa isn't real". I don't think either is worth flying off the handle for though and I don't think I insinuated that I would.

    I reckon as long as we're all instilling respect for others in our children, we kind of have to let them go and hope they do the right thing. Some kids are going to say things bluntly without thinking, some won't say anything at all. That's life. As long as they're not saying it to be deliberately malicious or rude then I think we have to just suck it up and use it as an opportunity to remind our own kids about resilience, open mindedness and integrity.

  12. #88
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    Default WWYD? 7 year old daughter being told "Santa isn't real"

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  13. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
    As long as they're not saying it to be deliberately malicious or rude then I think we have to just suck it up and use it as an opportunity to remind our own kids about resilience, open mindedness and integrity.
    Yes i agree with this. Also sorry my previous post wasn't specifically aimed at you, more the idea previously in the thread from others that the parents of the child who spilled the beans were somehow in the wrong. For what it's worth I'd have words to my child too if she purposefully or maliciously brought up the whole Santa thing to another child to upset them.

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  15. #90
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    To be honest, I think its a huge responsibility for a child to keep a 'secret'. They let things slip sometimes. And that's not just kids many adults too (myself included). Plenty of kids have told my son that santa isn't real. I'm completely ok with that. Their parents may have told them not to tell yet they do. I don't blame the kids either, they are learning and exploring the world around them. I explain to my son that some people believe and some people don't. If you don't believe he stops coming and if you do believe his magic is kept alive.

    The entire world is challenged daily and I want my children to grow up doing just that....continually, questioning and learning. It's a part of life to hear different beliefs, just as understanding other cultures

    On a side note, I think this will be my sons last year believing and that makes me feel quite sad really. Its the end of a beautiful chapter and means he is growing up (sniff sniff). So I completely understand that side of it!! You want them to hold on to the magic as long as possible as once its gone its gone.

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