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  1. #11
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    Gorgeous @Summer a quickie...you know how you've previously mentioned your friend who adopted an older child/sibling. How long did her assessment stage take, before then waiting to be matched to a child/children? I think you mentioned the matching stage took her one year? But how long did the assessment take once she'd waited 6 months from her last ivf cycle?
    (Hello to all the girls )

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Oops I probably didn't word that all that well! He meant in our personal and particular situation, that if we focus solely on having a child and completely lose focus on the relationship, then even if we get there, we are likely to split anyway because of the damage done to the relationship along the way. If that makes more sense?

    He didn't mean that there's no point to having a child without a relationship in the terms of single mothers, or the breakdown of relationships in the general course of life - he was talking about us, and that we wanted originally to have a child as the natural progression of our relationship and love for each other. If that is no longer valid because our relationship is failing, then do we want to bring a child into that for the right reasons? That was where he was going with it - did I explain that a bit better?
    You did from where I'm sitting Luv & I have to say I totally agreexo

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahli View Post
    Gorgeous @Summer a quickie...you know how you've previously mentioned your friend who adopted an older child/sibling. How long did her assessment stage take, before then waiting to be matched to a child/children? I think you mentioned the matching stage took her one year? But how long did the assessment take once she'd waited 6 months from her last ivf cycle?
    (Hello to all the girls )
    Hello Luv😊

    How are you travelling now??xo

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blossom74 View Post
    Wow. Tell that to all the single mothers out there! I find that a really odd comment to make. I think it smacks of someone who has no idea what it's like to not have held a baby of their own in their arms, and to know the special kind of desperation and pain that goes along with that.

    For me personally, if my DH hadn't supported me in this I would have left. That's harsh, but it's how I feel. Being with him and him alone will be enough for me if we tried everything within our means, but being denied the opportunity to even try - well, I guess I'd risk it all.

    That's me though, and not you I think you are incredibly brave, and from everything you've said you handled yourself with a quiet dignity I am very envious of.

    Perhaps the 1 on 1 sessions for your DH might help him open up and overcome his grief. I really do hope so because the rewards, as you already know, would far outweigh the grief that the whole process brings. Every day my heart hurts for the baby that I never had, but I know that in my soul, having another opportunity would help mend that wound.

    Hugs to you both as you navigate this tricky path


    Blossom
    Thanks again hon, the counselor did validate my pain and grief and he has experienced a miscarriage as well in his marriage and could articulate very well how difficult it was for him as a male, and could relate to DH bottling it all up. Thank you for thinking that I'm handling myself well - oh my goodness after the horror emotional wreck I was last year, this is a huge achievement! I really understand about your thoughts about if your DH didn't support you, you would leave. My yearning for a child is so huge, that I think if DH really does say no more, I will struggle to stay in the relationship. So far his "no more" is a product of him trying to avoid more grief, because what he has now is so overwhelming he can't cope with any more. Or cope with more of mine as well. So I don't see him as not supporting me as such, it is more that he is emotionally overloaded and not coping.

    The big thing is though, if he can do something about it. He can't just sit on this knowledge now and use it as an excuse to not move forward. So I will need to see some effort from him to resolve these feelings so that we can make a plan. Yes, there might be more grief involved, but that is life and I don't want to look back and regret not trying everything. He says that as well. So at this stage I have compassion for him for where he is right now, but that won't last forever if there is no effort from him to resolve it so that we can make decisions together that are not clouded by unresolved emotion.

    I've done my work, so maybe this is perfect timing. He couldn't let his grief out while I was so mired in mine, so this might be his turn while I support him. If I am being naive then I'll find that out soon enough, but at this point, I am willing to trust that he is not thinking straight purely from emotional overload, (God knows I've been there) and that with support we'll be fine. Time for me to stand up and carry him for a little while (but not too long - we have a baby to create!!!).

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlondeinBrisvegas View Post
    Well Luv...now that he's finally laid his cards on the table, what to do?? I knew there was more to it!!

    Anyhoo...here's what I'm thinking.....Would your DH be open to you doing a Cycle either with your OE or DE if you get the embryo's PGD tested as well which will reduce your risk of MC greatly as will being able to implement an immune protocol now you know you have immune issues?? With those 2 bases covered, your risk of another MC is very slim IMO. I know it does happen even with DE/Embryo's but that's usually because an underlying issue hasn't been discovered whether that be chromosomal because they weren't tested or immune etc.

    If push comes to shove, you may have to compromise about possibly not doing an OE Cycle though you could PGD any embryo's that you get as well. I know this is an expensive excercise, but so is adoption. My concern with adoption here in this backward country is that it takes YEARS plus my understanding is that you have to be done and dusted with any and all ART too.

    There is also an age limit which by the time your turn came around (even if adopting from overseas), I fear you would both be deemed ineligible. I also fear if your DH doesn't allow you to try to have that experience of pregnancy and delivering your baby regardless of whether it's OE/DE, then you'll end up feeling some level of resentment, bitterness toward DH for the rest of your life not to mention the feeling of regret and sadness too that you weren't able to draw a line under it all one way or another before embarking on the adoption path.

    I think if you can present him with the facts on PGD/Immune Protocol and the amount of frucking time it'll take to actually adopt a child with the risk you'll be denied that opportunity too due to age, he will compromise with and agree to you doing either an OE or DE Cycle or maybe both??

    Another point is regarding DE is the opportunity to have excess embryo's frozen for siblings down the line Luv. Your oven's good (generally speaking) until 50 even if your eggs aren't!!!

    P.S....I understand what the counsellor is saying about the relationship too.

    Big (((HUGS))) to you Luv as this must be such a stressful and difficult issue to negotiate for you. At the end of the day, someone's going to have to give in xoxo
    Darling @BlondeinBrisvegas - thank you! Yes, you and I knew there was definitely something else going on underneath, so it is really good to finally get it on the table and know exactly what we're dealing with. Thank goodness for that counselor who was able to articulate DH's feelings in man language so he could clearly identify what was going on for him. Don't know if he even knew himself why he was holding back from committing to moving forward with IVF or DE.

    I think once enough of his grief has been resolved to allow us to talk about this subject logically and rationally, I think what you've said, and what we've talked about before in regards to giving him a solid plan is where I'll need to go. All my miscarriages were without any immune or blood thinning support at all, and my oven looks fine (although I'd be happy to have more testing there if we go ahead), and with PGD on both my own embies or DE embies, we are minimising the risks - especially if my health continues to improve the way it is. I believe that once he understands that we are doing everything possible to minimise the risk, that he will be OK to try again. Especially if we do put a time frame on it. One more cycle for me before turning 45 and then looking at a donor cycle. If I miscarry DE's that are PGD tested and being on the kitchen sink protocol, then we know for sure that it's not meant to be. But I need to know that for myself and I am willing to risk further miscarriages and grief to find that out.

    And yes, with DE's we may have the potential of a sibling in the future if it turns out I can carry a child to term and am OK through it.

    Thanks again for your love and support, it is worth so much to me - I'll reply about adoption below.
    Last edited by Summer; 26-01-2016 at 13:14.

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Thanks again hon, the counselor did validate my pain and grief and he has experienced a miscarriage as well in his marriage and could articulate very well how difficult it was for him as a male, and could relate to DH bottling it all up. Thank you for thinking that I'm handling myself well - oh my goodness after the horror emotional wreck I was last year, this is a huge achievement! I really understand about your thoughts about if your DH didn't support you, you would leave. My yearning for a child is so huge, that I think if DH really does say no more, I will struggle to stay in the relationship. So far his "no more" is a product of him trying to avoid more grief, because what he has now is so overwhelming he can't cope with any more. Or cope with more of mine as well. So I don't see him as not supporting me as such, it is more that he is emotionally overloaded and not coping.

    The big thing is though, if he can do something about it. He can't just sit on this knowledge now and use it as an excuse to not move forward. So I will need to see some effort from him to resolve these feelings so that we can make a plan. Yes, there might be more grief involved, but that is life and I don't want to look back and regret not trying everything. He says that as well. So at this stage I have compassion for him for where he is right now, but that won't last forever if there is no effort from him to resolve it so that we can make decisions together that are not clouded by unresolved emotion.

    I've done my work, so maybe this is perfect timing. He couldn't let his grief out while I was so mired in mine, so this might be his turn while I support him. If I am being naive then I'll find that out soon enough, but at this point, I am willing to trust that he is not thinking straight purely from emotional overload, (God knows I've been there) and that with support we'll be fine. Time for me to stand up and carry him for a little while (but not too long - we have a baby to create!!!).
    I think what you've said here is beautiful. Grief is such an individual thing, and if he hasn't dealt with his, I can understand him not wanting to do the same thing again that caused that grief. I think if he can see someone to help him, with your support it can only make for a stronger relationship. I admire you for being able to see this, and not being blindsided by your own needs. And don't get me wrong, I understand, like all the ladies on here, the desire to carry and have your own child. But I think if you can give him the support & time to heal his grief, you will have a much stronger relationship, and anything that life throws at you in the future, you would be able to deal with together. I really hope for your sake he is able to deal with his grief, and join you in your journey for your baby xx

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  13. #17
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    @Summer Im hoping too that now that your DH has gotten it all out he can start to move on and work with you for the stuff you want. Mine works a little like this, when I first mentioned DE he went no straight away and then as time went on and I was tossing it around in my head he started to hear me out and we both just pondered it. The next thing I knew he had gotten there with me and we both agreed we wanted to do it. So it can happen!

    I think us women are all constantly thinking about all our options, talking about them all in here - with all the other over 40s counsellors and so we've moved ahead 3 years from where they have. They bury it, like you said and then wonder why they are having issues months or years later. The way I've always seen it is in our marriage we are both equal partners who want good things for ourselves and each other, and as long as those things are reasonable then I don't think its acceptable to prevent the other half to not have it, or a go at it in this case. I also think Blondes idea is a really good one. PGD should be the answer along with DE.

    I have a good friend who's partner is years younger and he doesnt want a child. Hes never said he never wants a child but shes my age and worries that she will resent him down the track. If it was me, I know I would resent him. And I just feel like its really frucking unfair, and he wont even discuss it.

    And Im with you girls too,I have a physical urge to grow and birth a baby and I think thats pretty natural for most women. I couldnt even fathom going into the whole adoption realm, but I really admire those who do.

    Really hoping this is the start of good things for you both. x

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahli View Post
    Gorgeous @Summer a quickie...you know how you've previously mentioned your friend who adopted an older child/sibling. How long did her assessment stage take, before then waiting to be matched to a child/children? I think you mentioned the matching stage took her one year? But how long did the assessment take once she'd waited 6 months from her last ivf cycle?
    (Hello to all the girls )
    Hi @Tahli, so nice to see you on here, I hope you're going OK and are working through your grief and distress. Do you have some real life support and someone you are turning to at the moment?

    I know you've been through the adoption process and I'm sure have a huge amount of information more than I have in my brief exploration into it, but what I am mainly going off is what my friend went through in her Philipines adoption.

    The assessment process I believe took nearly a year and they originally had their adoption request in with Columbia and then the laws there changed. They had to start again from scratch and applied to the Philipines as they were asking for inter-country adoptions. From their application to being matched with a child was nine months, they spent three months getting to know one another via Skype while all the paperwork was in progress and physically went to the Philipines to bring him home just on one year later.

    She explained to me that in the Philipines any orphan child 7 years or over, or siblings were considered to be special needs and were fast-tracked through the system, as not many people want to adopt older children or more than one at a time.

    With regards to age, the youngest parent is allowed to be no more than 45 years older than the child. So at 46 you can adopt a 1 year old (although that would take longer as most people adopting would want a young child) and so on. My friend and her husband were 50 years old, so could only adopt a five year old upwards. Because over 7 years old was fast-tracked, they chose to have an older child as they had been on the IVF / adoption process for fifteen years and didn't want to wait any longer.

    For us, and DH and I are both totally on the same page here, once we stop IVF or DE (or have our own child - although I'll have to look into how adoption works if we do) if we make it through the adoption assessment, then we would be applying to the Philipines to adopt older siblings.

    That is actually a dream of ours regardless of whether we have our own child or not. I know the adoption process is not easy, and I'm not saying it will be, (the laws could change in the Philipines any minute) but my friends experience, and knowing that DH and I genuinely want to and are excited about adopting older siblings (not as a "last resort" choice at all) gives me some hope that it could happen within a couple of years from now.
    Last edited by Summer; 26-01-2016 at 13:23.

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  17. #19
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    And sorry for hijacking the thread today and making it all about me

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  19. #20
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    PS: Summer if your friend has any books/training material on adoption I'd bring it into your home to read, esp books featuring Attachment Disorder and Reactive Attachment Disorder, and literature on older sibling groups and how their behavioural and emotional needs can greatly differ from older birth children. You could casually leave these out for DH to pick up and read.
    Hopefully you can reach a compromise of doing a final OE cycle and then one DE cycle, of which you should get multiple transfers from. Then move forward to adoption. Do you think he could manage the grief better if he knew there was an end date to it (final DE transfer). Of course you'll fall pregnant so the 'end' will be a baby in your family but just to help him see an end to his grief and to get you to your aim, IVF transfers!
    On a personal note, when my ex-DP and I were going through the adoption assessment process it became apparent that my ex-DP hadn't finished grieving a desire for a birth child. Our social worker stopped the assessment and strongly suggested he needed to work through that, which for us meant IVF. We stopped, did 3 unsuccessful rounds of IVF, grieved not having a birth child whilst waiting the 6 months and then restarted our adoption application.
    I guess my long winded point is, if one of you still has a desire for a birth child and hasn't recognised and grieved the loss of the imagined birth child then a good social worker will pick up on it.
    Oh and PPS: the social worker is likely to want to speak to DHs existing birth children about how they feel about adopted siblings and their needs, and also possibly to his ex wife too. The ex wife is to check that he's good with the children, not violent etc, but also that there is family harmony. I don't know whether they do this in Oz but they do in the UK.
    Last edited by Tahli; 26-01-2016 at 13:36.

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