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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeGirl View Post

    1. To suggest that an employee 'just be grateful' for her gift and bonus implies that she has no right to negotiate anything or ask for better (pay, conditions, whatever). IMO that kind of attitude is somewhat old fashioned. I personally, while being thrilled to get an awesome hamper, would not ever see that as replacing a pay rise/bonus (OP I do note that you say the employee got a bonus and a pay rise earlier in the year; I'm responding to what I'm interpreting as a bit of a tone in the thread that she should 'pipe down and be grateful'!)
    The bookkeeper got a bonus and had gotten a payrise earlier in the year. The bookkeeper is also on a pretty awesome salary for her job.

    The engineer got a pay rise and no bonus.

    Both do two completely different jobs and it's completely idiotic to even compare remuneration against each other.

    The hamper's to me are a nice gesture, but really quite irrelevant.

    If the bookkeeper wants to negotiate her pay - then absolutely go for it. But pick an appropriate time/place and don't have a hissy fit about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeGirl View Post
    3. Finally, someone please correct me if I'm wrong , but I'm pretty sure 'gag clauses' prohibiting employees from discussing / revealing their wages with others are (soon to be???) made illegal. Again, I may be wrong on this advice been away from my day job for a year!
    That's not what's happened here.

    What's happened is the boss (OP's DH) has gone to his bookkeeper and said "hey I want you pay $x.xx amount of bonuses to all of these people except for Sally."

    The bookkeeper has said "oh why isn't Sally getting a bonus?"

    The boss has said "because I've arranged with her that in lieu of a bonus she'll be getting a payrise next year".

    The book keeper has then chucked a massive tanty because Sally is getting a pay rise.

    Unless the book keeper was genuinely asking why Sally wasn't getting a bonus thinking that perhaps she had forgotten - it was really none of her business to ask.
    Last edited by alliecat89; 18-12-2015 at 20:29.

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  3. #42
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    There has to be more to this story that we/you are hearing. That is not a normal reaction. Maybe as Harvs said she is annoyed at being kept out of the loop. Maybe the office is running quite as dandy as what you believe it is. Maybe she has a valid concern with something. Maybe your hubby has favoured the other lady all year. Maybe her grandma just died. Maybe her husband has left and she's struggling Financially. Maybe she's going through IVF and is finding it tough. Maybe she just put her kids in private school and is thinking 'what a mistake how am I going to afford that.'

    There's no doubt her reaction wasn't cool. However as with the previous accountant business im sure you're understanding of how emotions can sometimes get the best of people. If your hubby can find the patience and understanding to spend a few minutes finding out what's going on in the employees head - he maybe able to avert a disaster. Your hubby is probably already aware however a hint for the future: don't discuss employment conditions and bonuses with anyone bar the employer concerned. That way you are drawing a line and not inviting others into something that really isn't their business.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeGirl View Post
    While I agree that your DP's bookkeeper overreacted somewhat, I'd like to put 3 points out there for consideration:

    1. To suggest that an employee 'just be grateful' for her gift and bonus implies that she has no right to negotiate anything or ask for better (pay, conditions, whatever). IMO that kind of attitude is somewhat old fashioned. I personally, while being thrilled to get an awesome hamper, would not ever see that as replacing a pay rise/bonus (OP I do note that you say the employee got a bonus and a pay rise earlier in the year; I'm responding to what I'm interpreting as a bit of a tone in the thread that she should 'pipe down and be grateful'!)

    2. The requirement that an employee should not know what her colleagues are paid is, again IMO, designed to 'divide and conquer' the workforce And while that terminology might be a little bit too left wing for some, I do think that denying employees access to information about what their colleagues are paid is a good way to keep them all in the dark and have no capacity to negotiate. More importantly, it's historically been one of the best ways to ensure that women have not received equal pay ( OP I'm in no way suggesting that this is the case here).

    3. Finally, someone please correct me if I'm wrong , but I'm pretty sure 'gag clauses' prohibiting employees from discussing / revealing their wages with others are (soon to be???) made illegal. Again, I may be wrong on this advice been away from my day job for a year!

    I know I seem to be the odd one out with this opinion, so go easy lol!

    Oh, just a final thing, I totally agree that the book-keeper, in having access to others' pay records as part of her job, should never abuse that information and use it to her own benefit.

    OP I'm really sorry your DP had this happens as he seems like a really decent boss. Just some things to consider.
    What @TreeGirl said ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    There has to be more to this story that we/you are hearing. That is not a normal reaction. Maybe as Harvs said she is annoyed at being kept out of the loop. Maybe the office is running quite as dandy as what you believe it is. Maybe she has a valid concern with something. Maybe your hubby has favoured the other lady all year. Maybe her grandma just died. Maybe her husband has left and she's struggling Financially. Maybe she's going through IVF and is finding it tough. Maybe she just put her kids in private school and is thinking 'what a mistake how am I going to afford that.'

    There's no doubt her reaction wasn't cool. However as with the previous accountant business im sure you're understanding of how emotions can sometimes get the best of people. If your hubby can find the patience and understanding to spend a few minutes finding out what's going on in the employees head - he maybe able to avert a disaster. Your hubby is probably already aware however a hint for the future: don't discuss employment conditions and bonuses with anyone bar the employer concerned. That way you are drawing a line and not inviting others into something that really isn't their business.
    True, there must be something else going on here and I'm sure DH will get to the bottom of it next week. It's actually good that there's the weekend for both of them to settle down so they can hopefully discuss it from a much more calm place next week. He definitely wants to find out because that was a really full-on response to what was supposed to be a very generous bonus.

    As for the not discussing wages - she is the payroll clerk so she has to know what is going on as she does all the pays and bonuses so there's no choice but to discuss these things with her. As a professional she shouldn't be using that information to then throw a hissy fit over another employees pay rise. Just. Not. Cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alliecat89 View Post
    The bookkeeper got a bonus and had gotten a payrise earlier in the year. The bookkeeper is also on a pretty awesome salary for her job.

    The engineer got a pay rise and no bonus.

    Both do two completely different jobs and it's completely idiotic to even compare remuneration against each other.

    The hamper's to me are a nice gesture, but really quite irrelevant.

    If the bookkeeper wants to negotiate her pay - then absolutely go for it. But pick an appropriate time/place and don't have a hissy fit about it.

    That's not what's happened here.

    What's happened is the boss (OP's DH) has gone to his bookkeeper and said "hey I want you pay $x.xx amount of bonuses to all of these people except for Sally."

    The bookkeeper has said "oh why isn't Sally getting a bonus?"

    The boss has said "because I've arranged with her that in lieu of a bonus she'll be getting a payrise next year".

    The book keeper has then chucked a massive tanty because Sally is getting a pay rise.

    Unless the book keeper was genuinely asking why Sally wasn't getting a bonus thinking that perhaps she had forgotten - it was really none of her business to ask.
    Yep, that was exactly the way I saw it. Obviously there are underlying issues, but whether that is a genuine company issue or just her own personal stuff coming out, I guess DH will find out next week. Regardless, she didn't even say thank you. Not for the hamper and not for the bonus. And that's just rude no matter what else was going on for her.
    Last edited by Summer; 18-12-2015 at 21:41.

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  10. #46
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    What an ungrateful sod of a woman!!! I would nearly have cried if a boss had given me a $2000 bonus on top of a nice hamper!! She was also an idiot for comparing salaries. It's just a fact that different jobs within companies have different pay levels.

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    I'm going to risk being shot here and suggest it's best to not expect a grand reception from a hamper. Unless a hamper contained things I actively used (beer, wine, movie tickets, cabanossi) I wouldn't be terribly excited. I tend to throw those fancy wafer biscuit things out - who eats them. And as for soaps etc my skin is sensitive so they go in the vinnies donation bag.

    Not saying this to be narky - just trying to explain that while it may have been fun to make the hampers it may not be something that floats the employees boat.

    Bonus on the other hand - hell yeah! Awesome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Not saying this to be narky - just trying to explain that while it may have been fun to make the hampers it may not be something that floats the employees boat.
    I know OP has been pretty excited about the hampers - but I really don't think their relevant to the story.

    The book keeper was completely out of line regardless of whether or not she'd just been given a hamper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm going to risk being shot here and suggest it's best to not expect a grand reception from a hamper. Unless a hamper contained things I actively used (beer, wine, movie tickets, cabanossi) I wouldn't be terribly excited. I tend to throw those fancy wafer biscuit things out - who eats them. And as for soaps etc my skin is sensitive so they go in the vinnies donation bag.

    Not saying this to be narky - just trying to explain that while it may have been fun to make the hampers it may not be something that floats the employees boat.

    Bonus on the other hand - hell yeah! Awesome!
    I was thinking the exact same thing about the hampers. The giver may think they are perfect but the receiver doesn't always like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm going to risk being shot here and suggest it's best to not expect a grand reception from a hamper. Unless a hamper contained things I actively used (beer, wine, movie tickets, cabanossi) I wouldn't be terribly excited. I tend to throw those fancy wafer biscuit things out - who eats them. And as for soaps etc my skin is sensitive so they go in the vinnies donation bag.

    Not saying this to be narky - just trying to explain that while it may have been fun to make the hampers it may not be something that floats the employees boat.

    Bonus on the other hand - hell yeah! Awesome!
    Agree!! My mil works for AUS post and she had to finally ask her boss not to give her one as the blokes got cartons of beer and she got one those crappy hampers each year! Sexist much! Lol

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