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  1. #191
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Whenever the topic of an unborn baby's personhood is discussed I struggle immensely with my mixed feelings. It's probably the topic I'm most confused and conflicted over. On one hand my heart says that a baby that can live without the mother (which is now around 22/23 weeks) should have personhood. My heart also says that if you can't stop using drugs or drinking (obviously I'm not talking about a drink a week) then you either abort at 12 weeks, or you clean up your act for your baby if you choose to keep it. The baby didn't choose to be conceived or be given disabilities.

    Then my logical side says that this would lead to criminality and women would be even more unlikely to seek help. There will be more dumped babies, addicts in jail instead of in rehab. I've worked with quite a few girls and women who were addicts and pg. Most carried immense shame that they weren't strong enough to stop.

    So yeah. I don't know where I stand.
    I have similar thoughts. There are a few cases where a pregnant woman has been murdered and the perpetrator convicted in the death of the baby as well, the main case that comes to mind is an 8 month pregnant woman murdered by her husband and he was also found guilty in the death of their unborn baby. Why is it ok to charge others (and with this specific case I think we'd all agree that he should have been charged) but then not a mother who harms her 8 month gestation baby? But then, like my post above, we're essentially making the problem worse if we convict rather than help a pregnant addict as we will creat a cycle of women not seeking help for fear of being punished.

    It's all such a minefield!
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 05-11-2015 at 17:39.

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  3. #192
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    harvs is offline Winner 2014 - Spirit of BubHub Award
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    Did the show mention limited/no access to contraception as a factor at all? I'd be interested to know whether making some sort of advances in that arena would reduce the prevalence of FADS?

  4. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sejimumma View Post
    Slightly off topic but I just wonder how long it will be until a child that suffers from FAS-D turns around and sues their parents for basically knowingly giving their child a disability as a direct result of their actions.
    If someone can sue woolies for injuries caused by slipping over in their store, then why not a child sue their mother for drinking during their pregnancy and giving them a life long disability.

    That said, I am one of those people who will have one drink at a special event or just because I really feel like one throughout my pregnancy. For me it's just a risk/reward thing and the reward is for my mental health - allowing myself the freedom to have a drink occasionally helps me relax and feel happy during my pregnancy rather than completely socially isolated. Every decision is a balancing act and I think it's important that we can allow ourselves some little pleasures if we perceive the risk to be low enough.

    This is taking it to the extreme, but just to make a point, we would never judge a mother for taking anti depressants during pregnancy even though they aren't category a drugs , so why judge for the occasional drink if it honestly is only occasionally and let's the mum to be relax and enjoy herself in a social situation ??
    Antidepressants and drinking shouldn't be compared. I am 11 weeks pregnant and would be horrified to think people were comparing my safe necessary medication with drinking.

    Their are very safe antidepressants which can be taken during pregnancy and for many women it is essential, alcohol is not essential and no type is safe.

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    I really feel that fear around guilt and women seeking abortions is one reason that is holding this issue back. I don't know how you balance this as clearly, binge drinking has the possibility to cause FAS-D, some women may genuinely feel their drinking has caused harm and choose abortion, and the fact is no one knows if that child was harmed until years down the track.

    Harvs they talked about FAS-D being an affliction primarily of white middle class people who clearly have ready access to birth control.

  7. #195
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    There was a thread on here years ago about late term abortions, a topic I really struggle with.

    One thing I discovered from the thread is why late term abortions occur and the alarming statistic about how difficult it can be for women to access abortions before 12 weeks. Yes even in major cities. There is also a level of shame and closing ones eyes to the reality of pregnancy and the fact an abortion may be the only option.

    Add to that scenario a woman with a serious drinking problem (but in denial about it) I am really uncomfortable about holding women criminally responsible for their conduct during pregnancy. I personally hate the term "slippery slope" as it discourages law makers from tackling difficult issues.

    I hate that it exists, I hate that a baby at 36 weeks gestation could be delivered but is still harmed by her pregnant mother. I hate it all.

    But I hate and fear the alternative more.

    Maybe compulsory medical detention would be a better option? I don't honestly know.

  8. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    I really feel that fear around guilt and women seeking abortions is one reason that is holding this issue back. I don't know how you balance this as clearly, binge drinking has the possibility to cause FAS-D, some women may genuinely feel their drinking has caused harm and choose abortion, and the fact is no one knows if that child was harmed until years down the track.

    Harvs they talked about FAS-D being an affliction primarily of white middle class people who clearly have ready access to birth control.
    The link I posted was actually from an FASD prevention page and it was stating that the media's strong use of certain images and language was causing unnecessary fear, so women unnecessarily seeking abortions.

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    Days before I found out I was pg with my first child I got very drunk for New Year with friends. We'd been trying a very long time and I honestly didn't believe I would ever get pg. I asked the middie who told me it would be just fine as much like a baby chick in an egg, the baby/embryo/whatever you want to term it feeds off the yolk sac at my stage, which had been 4 weeks. She said the placenta doesn't form until 6-8 weeks and that as long as you stop drinking in those very early stages the baby will be fine.

    So for the poster upset she got drunk before her BFP - your child will be just fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post

    Maybe compulsory medical detention would be a better option? .
    If that's on your platform while you are running for PM, I will vote for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Maybe compulsory medical detention would be a better option? I don't honestly know.
    Would that not require personhood though? In order to legally detain them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Would that not require personhood though? In order to legally detain them?
    Yep. It could only happen once the foetus was capable of life outside the womb.

    But I don't know.

    What about people who pass on genetic disorders to their children knowing it is a likely outcome? Or women with depression who have babies? If one had chronic PND after the first baby and statistically is more likely to get it the second time around do we say they shouldn't have more kids?

    Too bloody hard for me.

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